Kathryn: These stories can help us untangle mythology, about immigration, about indigenous, um, you know presence on this land. That, by having a a platform where everyone can participate, um, you really see how larger narratives, um, can be more complicated. And when we’re looking at at the story of one person or one family, and how that family has changed over time, you see how the United States has changed over time.

Shruti: Welcome to Immigrants Wake America. This is a podcast where storytellers share their family histories and the centrality of women in their life stories.  In response to the growing hatred and hostility, we conceptualize this podcast as a space for conversations among storytellers who are very much living, breathing, and responding to the current moment in their lives. I am Shruti Jain, an international student from India pursuing my PhD in the English Department at SUNY Binghamton.

Le: And I am Le Li, an international student from China pursuing my PhD in the Translation Research and Instruction Program at SUNY Binghamton University. We are the hosts for this podcast. In our introductory episode today, we have with us Kathryn Lloyd, Director of Programs at the Tenement Museum, and Dr. Lisa Yun, Associate Professor at the Department of English at SUNY Binghamton University. Kat and Lisa share with us their personal stories of immigration and migration. We also discuss the Tenement Museum’s digital archive Your Story, Our Story and talk about the scope of this podcast.

So, Kat, can you start by talking about the growth of Your Story, Our Story at the Tenement Museum?

Kathryn: I actually began with one class of fifth graders in Kensington, Brooklyn, and has expanded in those eight years to, um, you know, contributors of all ages from all across the country, um, who participate in this project. So, Your Story, Our Story, really, um, grew from the Tenement Museum’s practices at our our museum site here on the Lower East side of Manhattan. So, at the Tenement Museum, in our buildings, we invite visitors into the recreated apartments of, uh, former families who lived in these two tenement buildings, and almost all of those families were immigrants, migrants, or the children of. And so, on our tours we would hear from visitors, um, their connections to their own experiences and their own identities, and visitors would often share stories with us where they were incredibly powerful, um. And often those stories were actually sparked by objects that they saw in these recreated apartment spaces.

Uh, it was a small locket button, so it went onto an army uniform. And it, it opens up into a a locket. So, it’s a small brass button with space for two photographs. And inside of this, uh, locket, is a photograph of my grandmother, Juliet, and then um, a a man on the other side. and I didn’t know who that man was. It wasn’t my grandfather. Uh, and so I, it, it, actually this object prompted me to ask my dad, “who is this? Uh, this is not my grandfather. Who’s this other, the other person in this photograph. Um, what’s the story of this object? How did we come to to have it?” Um, and it actually created an opportunity for my dad and I to have a conversation about his mother, um, at a a level of depth that we had never really, um, you know, had before. That, uh, you know, this this other person in the photograph in this locket was um, one of my my grandmother’s um, boyfriends, before she met and married my grandfather. He was a soldier during World War I. And, and you know he was being sent off to fight in France, and this locket button was to remind him of her.

Shruti: Let’s hear from Lisa about her story of immigration and her journey to Your Story Our Story.

Lisa: I’ve always been interested in stories and storytelling, partly because I was a really lonely kid growing up. So, my folks originally came from China and Hong Kong, and they were married in New York Chinatown and then had me. But for a period of my childhood, we moved to Vermont near the Canadian border, and we lived on a dirt road that eventually became a gravel road. I was the only non-white kid around, um. But my interest was piqued by this new culture and a lot of unexpectedly colorful characters. These were every day working people, um, neighbors, who had these stories and dramas. They gave me a full imaginative life. But in moving to Vermont, we became immigrants again in a different culture. And so as a kid, I discovered it’s through stories that we make sense of life, and that we connect with others, and and we grow.

In in second grade, I went to class in a trailer. And I had this young teacher named Mrs. Coffrin, never forget her. And she encouraged my love of stories. And she allowed me to put on a play by using a short bookcase as my stage and puppets as actors. And it was a catastrophe as midway I got really carried away and I accidentally knocked over the bookcase. The class went wild, um, but she embraced me as a teacher. So that’s when my path to becoming a lover of stories, and you know, becoming a professor, and now arriving to Your Story, Our Story.

And for me as a researcher, I was hooked. Who are these people? Why are they moved to write about their experiences of of immigration, and um, or migration? Um. Why did they send off their stories to this museum in New York? And how does the digital operate here as a key pathway for story making and history making for everyday people?

Kathryn: Many people would actually uh, offer to contribute and donate objects to the Tenement Museum. But we are, uh, in a Tenement building. We actually don’t have a lot of physical space. So we weren’t able to accept those physical objects. But what we realized is that if we started an online exhibit, we would be able to accept as many stories as people were willing to contribute. Right? Just like you would have collections in a a museum of physical objects, we create collections and almost mini exhibits to look at particular themes, questions, uh, and use those collections to respond to myths about immigration. And that’s a really important part of this project that each story is both unique in its specificity, but each story is also part of a bigger story and a a changing story about this land and this country.

Lisa: So, you know, right now we’re at a moment where there is a surge in xenophobia and anti-immigrant rhetoric, a surge in hate crime, a sort of hyper-circulation of stock and stereotyped narratives about immigrants. Um, for example, conflating Asian Americans with COVID 19, uh, resulting in this horrific rise in anti-Asian hate crime.

Le: As international students and women of color we find ourselves personally impacted by this growing hatred and violence. Through this podcast we hope to facilitate a space for people from different backgrounds to be heard. The podcast will be a living archive of stories and serve as an intervention in the ways in which immigrant women’s (hi)stories are narrated, received and passed on. 

Shruti: Thank you for joining us today. We hope you enjoy this episode of Immigrants Wake America. For more conversations and explorations, please listen to our future episodes available on all major streaming platforms. We have linked our social media and website in the description box. We would be happy to hear your thoughts and feedback. See you next time! Until then, take care and stay safe!

Laura: And my great grandma said, “No, we came here and we’re gonna make it here.”

Shruti: Welcome to Immigrants Wake America. This is a podcast where storytellers share their family histories and the centrality of women in their life stories.  In response to the growing hatred and hostility, we conceptualize this podcast as a space for conversations among storytellers who are very much living, breathing, and responding to the current moment in their lives. I am Shruti Jain, an international student from India pursuing my PhD in the English Department at SUNY Binghamton.

Le: And I am Le Li, an international student from China pursuing my PhD in the Translation Research and Instruction Program at SUNY Binghamton University. We are the hosts for this podcast. Today our guests are Jim Holley and Laura D’Angelo. Jim worked as a librarian in Broome County, Binghamton, NY for over 50 years and is currently a yoga teacher at Binghamton University. Laura was a Binghamton University student and is now working in New York. Jim and Laura talk about their grandparents and their own personal stories around migration.

Jim: Um, I was uh, moved into my grandparents’ house when I was very young. My parents uh, separated and they went their own way, and my grandmother and grandfather raised me. And um, the neighborhood that I grew up in, uh, seventy-six years ago, uh, it was right after World War Two, so if we put it into perspective, Um, most of the, my neighborhood, Uh, cohorts, or were children of parents who had endured not only Uh, the ravages of you would say the depression, which was very traumatic for many people at that time.

        Um, our neighborhood was filled with people from Uh, several different uh ethnicities, some several different areas. And as I glimpsed through the houses in my neighborhood, I see Mr. Murphy, Irish, Mr. Shulis, Greek, uh, Mrs. Basmasian, uh, uh, Armenian, uh, Mr Zervius. Greek, Mr. Bazouri, my grandfather, Italian. Um, moving up and down the neighborhood, Um, Bobby, a Goodman. Uh, she was from, I believe, Uh, Russia or Poland. She spoke Hebrew, and her daughter was the mother of of the young fellow I grew up with was like a brother to me, Uh, Philip Savis. They were um orthodox Jewish people. But I lived practically in his house along with some of my other friends. They live right across the street from me, so I indulge in some of the best foods that Uh. Phil's mother would make, and then uh, visiting the Greek houses, whatever they had on their table that all of us kids could share, and so on. But um, it was a a mixed neighborhood and it was really interesting. Um, because um, you know, y, you found out that not everybody was the same and uh, people spoke different languages, and although you might not have understood them, uh, you could understand um, their broken English. You just kind of knew that their grandpa was a little bit different than your grandma, and uh, but we all blended.

Laura: Well, it’s interesting how you, Jim, were referring to your childhood and kind of saying how you had this ideal childhood because that’s similar to what I always hear my grandma say, uh, when she talks about her upbringing growing up in Brooklyn. she was born in 1930, and it’s the same kind of deal where she says, even though they were very poor and didn’t have much, she kind of didn’t know any better because everyone else around her was poor. So it’s not something she realized until after the fact.

        In terms of her upbringing, oh, I guess I should back track. My grandma’s father, uh, my great grandpa Mormo. He was actually born in America in 1901, which is interesting cause I didn’t always know that. I kinda just figured he was born in Italy and then they emigrated from Italy to America when they came in 1930. But he was actually born in America in 1901. And his father, I think his name was Antonio, he would push carts and glip rags in newspapers and bring them to a junk yard for a living. And then I think I think his older brother wanted them to move to Pennsylvania because they thought there would be better opportunity there. And they went there, and I believe they worked as grave diggers and it wasn’t really working out for them too much. And then my great grandpa’s father took his family back to Italy, and then, and my grandma always says her father was mad that his father took him back to Italy, because he was born in America. So he would always say say, I could have gone to school here. So he came back, and my grandma, my great grandma was pregnant with my grandma on the ship to America, and yeah, they had to work very hard to just kind of make make ends meet. My grandma’s always telling me these stories about how growing up there was icicles on her diaper, or how she slept in a drawer as a baby because they couldn’t afford a crib for her. And, and then I believe there was this moment when even after my great grandpa came to America and they were struggling. So he kinda was having doubts and saying “Maybe we should just go back to Italy to our farm town. You know that’s what we know. We’re struggling here.” And my great grandma said, “No, we came here and we’re gonna make it here. Because that’s what we said. That’s what we set out to do and we’re not breaking that promise.” So so she kind of snapped my great grandpa back into it and he said “Okay” and they stayed. And he dreamed of owning a house in Brooklyn, which I think he eventually did. When my grandma was like sixteen or seventeen, they eventually saved up enough money to get a little house in Cypress Hills, which she was very proud of.

Jim: They all struggled. Yeah, your your grandparents struggled and my grandparents struggled. It was a tough time for a lot of people, but you know, it built resilience and strength and determination. Like you grandma said, “We’re gonna stay and we’re gonna make it.” Well, my grandmother who raised me, um, was um, actually, we used to call it crippled, crippled up with polio when she was a child, and so she walked, uh significant limps, and she had double canes. And uh, she, she went to work at a sheltered workshop for handicapped people. But she was tough. She was a tough lady. Uh, you know she’d get up early in the morning and walk out to the bus stop, take the bus, go to work, come back, walk home from the bus stop. And um, she worked, uh, five days a week and she worked on the weekend.

Laura: Uh, did your grandparents ever worry during the World War Two era, even though I know you said you grew up after that, did they worry at all about being prosecuted for their Italian heritage? Cause, I know, I know, isn’t it a thing that a lot of Japanese Americans and Italian Americans were worried because of, you know, the whole internment camp situation?

Jim: You know, that’s a good question, Laura. It’s interesting, there there, I’ve heard of people telling me, um that there was discrimination against people, Italian people, and I’m sure that existed, um, in general, you know. I, I wasn’t familiar with it in Binghamton. I think my wife said in Endicott, there was some uh, some uh, antipathy towards Italian people moving into certain neighborhoods. But I, I do know that in some places and it, I guess it depends on where it was, there was, there was this uh, antipathy towards Italians. But it was a general kind of like, xenophobic, furi-, uh, fervor towards people who were not born in America. You know, they, no matter who you were, if you weren’t here, they didn’t like you, I guess, but you know then, then, people overcame that.

        My my grandmother’s uh, my grandmother who raised me her, uh, baby brother, his name –Jimmy, and he was drafted uh, join the war, uh in in early 40’s. And uh, he went through the whole war with my other uncle Dave, and my uncle Buddy, who was killed in Normandy. And so my mother, uh, when I was born, my mother named me after after Jimmy. Not too much longer, uh, you know, I was told I of uh, my Native American heritage by another aunt. So I’m of a mixed descent, and so I. I spent many many years, uh, in Native American ceremonies, and so on, uh over thirty years. And uh, and I was named in a s- what they call a Sundance arbor by two medicine men, um, Earl Swiftok and uh Krodoug, Leonard Krodoug. So they gave me the name Wambli Weahar in Lakota. That means Eagle Feather. And uh, I, I, Sundance many many years and I ran, you know, people lived with me. Lakota people live with me. I went out to the reservation fourteen years, and a lot, I spent a lot of my time doing that anyway. And I retired from those ceremonies about eight or nine years ago, because I had gotten old. I mean, gotten old. Those pretty vigorous, pretty rugged things, some of the things that we did. So I, you know, I bowed out with grace, and um, you know, I still still retain the the memory, and uh retain connections, uh, with that part of my heritage. But you know I’m not just one thing, you know. So I wanted to just fill up myself with what I was, or what I knew to be myself, and uh, I wanted to be a complete person, uh, I did it.

Laura: So my grandma was born Antonetta Lucia. That was name on her birth certificate. And then when she went to preschool in America, the teachers kind say that sounds too long. and just, I think they shortened it down to Antonetta Lucy, because they found that easier to say. So yeah, she was originally Antonetta Lucia, and then when she went to school, it got changed to Antoinetta Lucy. And then sort of through the years it just kind of on her social security and official government documents and stuff, I think it’s just Anne Lucy. And so yeah, when she had her six kids, she named them, my father’s name is John and then uh, her other son’s name is Alex, and there’s Jeannie, Catherine. There were all names that were based on like, I think my aunt Catherine was named after some relative Katerina. They were all based on Italian relatives, but it was the Americanized version of that because my grandma's father always was making an effort to try to Americanize his family. Like when he came to American and was living with one of his aunts in Astoria while he was saving up to get his own place and get on his feet, he, he learned about the whole Christmas tree tradition 'cause that was something they didn’t do in Italy, obviously, and he just. So, when he had a place of his own with his kids and his wife, he said we’re getting a Christmas tree, because that’s what Americans do. So my grandma sort of took that mentality from him, and when she had her kids, she, she did not want them having big, long, luscious, rhythmic Italian names that would make them stick out. She wanted them to have American names and then it’s funny, cause my, so then my aunts and uncles, they went and had their kids, and then those kids who have now started having kids have kind of done the opposite. And they have kids whose names are Katerina Natalucia, and all these long Italian names because they’re proud of their heritage, so they want to show that. And my grandma was sort of confused by it at first. She was just like, “Oh, that’s nice. Why are you making them have such long names?” Cause she just feels like in her head, like, “Oh, it’s so long. It’s going to be so hard for people to remember it and write it out.” But my cousins, they are just like, we’re proud of our heritage. We want to, we want to show it off. So yeah, it’s funny how it kind of kind of changes and it goes in cycles.

Laura: So she, she’ll be telling the stories while she’s you know, mixing the sauce, for pasta, and then always ending it with “Oh, this is no good. I’m sorry,” always apologizing. Because she always feels like whatever she cooks isn’t good enough because she's always comparing I guess what she cooks now to the past when she was making these big meals for you know, entire family, like big four course meals. And I guess it’s it’s harder to cook for one person when she lives on her own. I always try to tell her “You need to give yourself more credit. You’re you’re 90 years old. You’re still cooking for your grandchildren. That’s pretty impressive.”

Jim: When you said your grandmother was, you know, making sauce, and so on. I remember, as a little boy my grandmother would say, uh, run downstairs and give me a couple of quarts of tomatoes and bring them up, and she made sauce. That was from the tomatoes they canned. I remember those days too.

        Uh, on another note, when my grandfather bought his little tiny house on the south side of Binghamton, and interestingly enough, he bought it with what was called war bonds, and war bonds were bonds sold, uh, during the conflict to help support the war. And I think at the end of the end of the war, he had like five hundred dollars saved, or whatever, from working, you know, four or five years for for the government facility, and bought this little tiny house with a big backyard on the south side of Binghamton. And my grandmother was kind of mad at him because she said, “Why did you get this little house?” He says, “the house is little, but the yard is big. So what do you put in the backyard? A garden.”

        My grandmother wasn’t so much in the garden as in the kitchen with the garden. As said my grandmother was handicapped, and um she would hardly, she wouldn't be able to really get in and move around in the garden. She had double, double canes and so on. But it was her philosophy about what you did with the garden when you had the garden, and one of them is that, uh, she always said, the more you give away from your garden, the more you’re going to get back. So you know, neighbors would come by and “you want a tomato, you want to squash, you want this?” I mean, we gave away stuff all the time from our garden. And uh, and it was her feeling that the more you give from this garden, and the more you’re going to get back as a human being, and I find that to be very true.

Shruti: Thank you for joining us today. We hope you enjoy this episode of Immigrants Wake America. For more conversations and explorations, please listen to our future episodes available on all major streaming platforms. We have linked our social media and website in the description box. We would be happy to hear your thoughts and feedback. See you next time! Until then, take care and stay safe!

Alison: And being a first-generation college student. That's something you should be proud of, um, whether it's in front of your family or like, even telling people that you are. Like, that’s an achievement that, um. your ancestry, like, paved the way for you and for you to be able to, like, get to where you are today.

Le: Welcome to Immigrants Wake America. This is a podcast where storytellers share their family histories and the centrality of women in their life stories. Today our guest is Alison Wang. Alison was a Binghamton University student and is now a registered nurse in New York. In this episode, Alison talks about her family and personal stories around migration. I am Le Li. 

Shruti: I am Shruti Jain. So, hi Alison. Thank you so much for joining us.

Alison: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me here.

Shruti: Can you start by talking to us about your family’s story of immigration to the United States?

Alison: Yeah, um, so it was about the nineteen, it was like in the 1980s where my family, uh, decided to come to America for like the American dream and at that time my grandpa's brother was actually in the U. S. already, so, um, my grandfather had him sponsor him to come to the U. S. So he actually came here first to start, like, the whole process, and like, to pave the way for um their family of four. It would be my grandparents, my mom, and my aunt. And um in nineteen eighty Four is when they officially immigrated here, and it's been thirty-seven years now. Um. and when they first came, Um, Obviously, it was like a huge culture shock, and Um, they had to work laboriously and late. They had to feed the family, and without speaking the language here, it obviously made everything ten times harder. So, yeah.

Shruti: Were there other families that were other immigrant families around you that were helping or forming communities with you while you were growing up? Um Did you have a lot of Um people as as a community together?

Alison: Yes, for sure. Actually, most of, like, their friends are, are neighbors right now, so back then everybody who immigrated for some reason decided to eventually like congregate in, uh, the Bensonhurst area. So I live in Brooklyn, and it’s like deep down in Brooklyn, and everyone around us they, they were either Cantonese. Um, they were, like, Hakkas. I don't, I don't know how to say that in English. But, um, everyone from different cultures, like, decided to just congregate in that community. And that's how, um, I guess they learn different languages. Because my family, they didn’t know how to speak Cantonese prior to coming here, so they definitely, like, learn the language as they lived here as well. So.

Shruti: Wow

Le: Um, how did you chance upon the box of letters mentioned in your story?

Alison: Yeah, so it was a summer day, and, um, I think my family decided to just do some deep cleaning, um, and invite the new season. Uh, but after like each room, um, we cleaned and in the closet that we were cleaning, stored away that box of letters. And it was actually in a a suitcase. It was like, it looked very ancient and once we opened it we were like, astonished. 

Shruti: So you had no idea that you had such a box in your house.

Alison: No, I didn’t. I, literally, that was my first time seeing it in the house or in general.

Shruti: Wow, and and what was your and your family's reaction to seeing it?

Alison: Uh, so I was the one who actually found it, which was perfect for the project that I was working on. But uh, we stumbled upon it and then we were like all, very astonished and obviously, with my curiosity it was driven. And um, we just sat there, just trying to decipher like what the words are on some of the ink, uh on the paper. And every, like, about a good chunk of it was washed away due to like, um, it being like so old, but we also saw the naturalization process of becoming a citizen, which um, I thought was very fascinating. Because it would be a list of questions, and then everything would be in English. And then I think, at that time my mom had learned a bit of English and she just translated a few words for my grandpa, grandpa. In my like project that we were doing with Professor Yun, I wrote that like it was a sober reminder of the art, Uh, that has been lost to technology, which, that still resonates with me. Um, this was their only means of communicating.

It was definitely a gateway or like a segway to learning more about my ancestry. Um,  in the very moment, like, I obviously had conversations with my parents and just asked about, like, their experiences while immigrating here. But um, at the time my grandparents lived in the basement, but we moved on the street a few years ago. Uh, so I also got the chance to just ask how they felt and what was the process like, but obviously conversations didn’t just cease there. Um, as time went on, like my grandfather would love telling me stories about their childhood and like what him and my grandmother would do after school or something like that, or after work, so I found that very, like, enlightening. in a sense, 

Shruti: I I remember you were saying earlier that some of the ink on the letters was washed off. It was hard to decipher the alphabets. Mhm, was was the written language similar to the way you write the language right now, and what language was were the letters in? 

Alison: Yeah, um, it was all in Chinese. Um, everything was written in Chinese also, but everything was the same as it was, a, as it is now. It was just hard to decipher because like they’ve they’ve moved from place to place and obviously like it is not going to be in that pristine condition.

Shruti: So it was more the material condition of it that made it hard to read than the language itself?

Alison: Yeah.

Le: Speaking of languages, what languages do you speak?

Alison: I speak Mandarin, Shanghainese, and a bit of Cantonese. Uh, the thing is like I love learning my languages. Um, so when I was younger, I went to Chinese school. And while everyone else hated going to Chinese school, I, like, looked forward to it on Saturdays, because I actually did well in Um school. And uh, just learning new languages help me, like, discover more of myself, I feel like.

Le: To follow up, what languages do you speak at home, with your parents and grandparents? Um, do you guys speak different languages?

Alison: Yeah, we do. So my mom’s side, they’re Shanghainese. And I speak Shanghai, with my mom, my aunt, Um, my grandparents. And my dad’s side, they are from Xinjiang, so I speak Mandarin with them, and then I’ll throw some English in, like whatever I don't know how to translate a word. So, yeah.

Le: You just mentioned that your dad’s family is from Xinjiang and you speak Mandarin with them. Are they Han or? 

Alison: They are, yeah. Yeah. Um, I, for the longest, I didn’t even know the difference. So it took so many years of him telling me you we are Han. And like every time like, someone asks me like where my dad is from. It's so hard to explain because Xinjiang, not that many people would know of it, and like, I would have to describe it on the map and they still don't know what it is. And I've gotten so many remarks that I look mixed. And because of that like I would also have to go down a rabbit hole of like where everyone is from. But yeah.

So we would, like, when we were younger, um, my mom’s side, they are Buddhist, so we would go to the temple, Uh, whenever it’s like Chinese New Year or like a big holiday. Um, and I guess that’s like something traditional that we do, but because of COVID, I don’t think we’ve gone back at all. Uh, but in terms of them having like nailed down the Chinese culture in us, I don’t think they were too strict about it.

Le: So, how did the experience of discovering the letters and having all those conversations change the way you perceive yourself? Or was it changed at all?

Alison: Yes, a hundred percent. Um, at the time I was still, I think like a freshman in college or like a, or it was the summer before I went into college. And I wasn’t like as mature, but as the time went on, it definitely gave me like that sobering reminder that this is also part of my identity that um, I’m also constantly reminded that I am a first generation student. Um so, definitely from them coming to the U. S. and earning as little as five dollars an hour working seven days a week, it's like a reminder that I also have to work hard in order to not fail them. 

It was definitely very emotional when I uh, passed my NCLEX. So I didn’t tell them when I took the NCLEX. I slept over a friend’s place and I studied with my best friend, and one day we decided like to schedule the test date for July something. And I was still at my friend's place, Um, when the results came out. So I recorded myself opening the results and then I would FaceTime each family member and then I recorded their reactions. So that was like a moment where I was like Wow, like. 

Shruti: Did this also inspire maybe other kids in your family to do more things and achieve more, and you as a as a model for them to look up to?

Alison: Uh, so I have a younger sister. She is two years younger and she is actually a marketing major at Brook. Um, and I think in some ways it definitely did inspire her to like achieve for the greater, definitely not in the same route that I took. Because that’s two opposite um, tracks. But she’s definitely pushed herself and like proved in little ways that she can also like make the impression that she’s doing um, great things. 

This entire experience, it’s still like a growing experience, like as a first-generation college student. I’m always reminded that I don’t have that “handicap.” Like e especially in nursing school, everyone’s parents like they or family they came from, like a health care professional background. And having known that it just makes me feel some type of way sometimes. Like, it forces me to work harder than like my peers. And uh, that was like a really big driving force for me. So I think uh, having known that like, don’t use that as like a negative light shine towards you. Use that as like a driving force in achieving greater things. And being a first-generation college student, that's something you should be proud of, Um, whether it's in front of your family or like, even telling people that you are. Like, that's an achievement that, um, your ancestry like paved the way for you and for you to be able to like get to where you are today. They’ve played a big part in that role.

I really hope this like outlet really inspires people, and for them to be able to tell their story. And um, obviously like I thank you guys for having me. It was a pleasure and thank you for letting me have my own voice here.

Shruti: Thank you.

Le: Thank you so much for taking the time to record with us.

Alison: No problem.

Shruti: Thank you for joining us today. We hope you enjoy this episode of Immigrants Wake America. For more conversations and explorations, please listen to our future episodes available on all major streaming platforms. We have linked our social media and website in the description box. We would be happy to hear your thoughts and feedback. See you next time! Until then, take care and stay safe!

Goretti  0:00  

And I offered, I said, “Okay, I will drive you in the evening. I’ll come here. I’ll sit and wait for her until she finishes classes. And I bring her back home.” The husband said, “No, she can’t.”

Le  0:12  

Welcome to Immigrants Wake America. This is a podcast where storytellers share their family histories and the centrality of women in their life stories. I am Le Li.

Shruti  0:25  

And I am Shruti Jain. Today’s episode is a special one. The conversation will be facilitated by Dr. Lisa Yun, Associate Professor in the departments of English and Asian American Studies, Binghamton University. Our guest today is Goretti Mugambwa. We hand over the space to Dr. Yun and Goretti.

Lisa  0:47  

Hi, I’m Lisa Yun. And I’m really happy to be here and happy to interview Goretti Mugambwa. She’s originally from Uganda and settled here in Upstate New York. She is a case manager for immigrants, refugees, and asylees who are settling in this area. So I’m excited to hear about her experience and also about her own journey to the US. So Goretti, welcome to the podcast.

Goretti  1:18  

Thank you, Lisa. Thank you for inviting me. I’m honored to be part of your project.

Lisa  1:25  

How about the the the cases that you’re working with here at the American Civic Association in Binghamton as an Immigrant Case Manager? What are some of the the incoming cases?

Goretti  1:38  

Yeah, you know, previously, I was a refugee case manager. That’s when I was resettling so many refugees from different parts of the of the world. But currently, that program stopped. But when the Afghanistan, there was problems in Afghanistan, we tried to help the churches that were resettling them because the churches couldn’t do it directly. So currently, we have some, there are some families from Afghanistan, coming through the churches who sponsored them that we are being part of and helping, though they haven’t come yet. We have, no, I think we received only one family so far. Right now we are still waiting for for the clearance from the Immigration Department.

Lisa  2:20  

Hm, I really admire the important work that you all do here at the Civic Association. And especially you, you’ve been doing this work for many, many years.

Goretti  2:32  

Yeah, I’ve been doing this work for 10 years now, almost 11.

Lisa 2:36  

And I know many people come to seek the services here. It’s a lifeline for them. They come for the English classes, um, I know numbers of people come to get assistance for their families. What are some of the, I wonder if you could share some of your past experiences, perhaps starting with your early work with refugees?

Goretti  2:58  

Yeah, so my early work with refugees are, as I told you, they are from Iran, ah, Iraq. Some from Russia, actually, I mean, some of the Ukrainian refugees came from Russia, some from Burmese. So the first thing they do is to try and learn English. So immediately they come we have to register them with English classes, which are offered here at American Civic Association. And of course, it’s a struggle. Then there is a struggle in the family who goes to, to to the classes. Because it’s husband, wife, and, children of course are registered into, go to school. And they, you know, it’s up to the husband and wife to decide who comes to classes, but some of the families through their culture, they didn’t want their wives to come to classes at all. They have to be accompanied by male, or they, you know, they just don’t allow them to come to classes. So it was a struggle, some of the, and, the women really, really are very good. They know, they they learned so fast. Some of them would come with, you know, both husband and wife, especially when they have kids, all of them are going school. But if they have little kids, of course, they, you know, the whole load comes to the woman to stay in home and take care of the children. One family in particular, I remember very well I asked them, I offered them, because the woman was really bright. She was a teacher in her country. And I offered I said “okay, I will drive you in the evening. I’ll come here. I’ll sit and wait for her until she finishes classes. And I bring her back home.” The husband said, “No, she can’t. I have to be there.” Then another one said “well, if you go to class, my my son has to be there with her.” Because the son is a young teenage man young man and you know it was, so she decided said, “You know, I’m not going. Don’t worry. My husband doesn’t want to do it.” So she never came to classes.

Lisa  4:46  

So, there are a lot of challenges for them and also for you in your assisting them and helping them to settle. And I’m, I am very curious about what you mentioned about the particular situation or challenges for the women who are settling here, for example, trying to get English classes, and also at the same time bearing the heavy load of being primary caregivers for their families. What are some of the other challenges, if we could continue to, you know, talk about your experiences with women in particular? What are some of the other challenges that you faced?

Goretti  5:31  

The other challenge we faced like, most of the families, actually, and I mean, women had reached a point where maybe they don’t want more children. And they said, “You know, I’ve had enough.” And they see the struggles here. I mean, when they come to America, the culture is quite different. Because at home, the house at their home, they have support. Children have someone, you know, a relative who will come and take care of the children. And, you know, for her to do other things. But here, they are just on their own, you know, they just in the house; they are with the children and the hus- the husband, you know. So some of them don’t want to have more children, but the husband will not leave it to her, said, you know, you know, they want more and more children. So one lady in particular, she told me that she doesn’t want to have another child, “if I have another child, I’m going to die.” So I said, “okay.”  So she came here with her daughter, who had now you know, was in school. And so we were translating through the phone, you know, I say this, then she types it in and then she understands what I’m talking about. And she was really serious. She really wanted, she didn’t want more children. So I took her to family planning. And I said, “so if they give you contraceptives, what, what, how are you going to take them? How are you going to?”  Her, “Don’t worry. I’m going to hide some of them. And you can keep some of them here for me. I’ll come for them.” So that’s how we did it.

Lisa  6:54  

What you just shared with us, it’s such an eye-opener. I can’t imagine that people who don’t do this kind of work, would even, you know, think of some of the experiences you’ve just shared. And perhaps, you know, you could tell us about, or I would like to know, what happens when when these families first arrive, to, you know, when they get to, let’s say the airport.

Goretti  7:21  

So when these families arrive, first of all we are given the arrival dates, we are you know, these things come from Washington, the central office in Washington. And then they send us that, you know, first of all, we accept resettling these families in the community. So then they send us all the bio, their everything. Then we have to look for a housing for them. So we have to find a an apartment or a house. And then we have to furnish those apartments. The money the government gives you is very little. If you use it, if you use it all, the family won’t have anything. So we tried our own best to find, we find some some, we go in the community, find some people who who kind kind people, who offer us furniture, who offer us things, free things. Of course, we’re looking for through free things, you know, just furnishing the house so that, you know, like an apartment ready to move in when they come here. And then we have to go shopping buy bed bedsheets, buy towels, buy supplies, you know. So because you know, when they come to the house, they have to have food ready, you know, cultural appropriate food. If you’re from Ukraine, we have to find out what the Ukrainians eat. And we have to find some people in the community. If they can help us prepare that meal. Or if they are from Iraq, we have to find the Iraqis who can help us prepare this. Meal has to be their own cultural meal. So we go to the, I I used to go to the airport, myself, sometimes alone, sometimes with a colleague. But whatever time the plane comes, I have to be at the airport to meet them. So if they have an uncle here, family that is helping them, I go with that family member. We go to the airport. That helps a lot if they have family members, because the language, you know, no one speaks English there, few words here and there, but you know. So we go to the airport, we pick the family. I remember picking the family at around 2am, and it was snowing. So they come here you take them, we need to take their papers. And then you drive them to the family or to the house where they’re going. You sit down with them to make sure they have eaten and you have to eat the food with them. So we sit down, we eat the meal. We leave them there. The following day, we have to bring them back to American Civic to do registration, to take them to Department of Social Services, to know this, the children to register school, children in school. You know, all that work.

Lisa  9:51  

I’m really inspired by hearing your stories Goretti, and I admire your commitment. You’re really the face. You, you know, and the many others who are part of this community who reach out and support, you know, newcomers. You’re the face of our of our community. And I’m just so, just want to tell you how much I admire it. I also want to take the opportunity to ask you about your own journey. So I imagine your past also informs your decision to go into this kind of work.

Goretti 10:30  

Yeah. So you know, when I came, I came through, you know, through different countries. Uh, you know, when I started, I was alone, I didn’t have responsibilities, but I just wanted to run away from my country. I hated my country. As you know, I still do. I love my people. I love the family members. I love the, you know, the culture. I love everything about my country, but I don’t like my country because of what our politicians have done to this country for for a long, long time. So, but anyway, I left. The reason I left was, my brother-in-law was shot and killed in front of my sister and her three children. My brother-in-law was a dentist, a doctor. And he had had a meeting with the government people and told them, said, “you know, how can you want.” Because they were talking about protecting doctors, protecting, doctors were being killed in my country at that time. So he told him, said, “how can you protect doctors, when doctor, you don’t protect the people we want to treat, as the first obligation for you people is to protect the people.” They didn’t like that. So the informants in the meeting, went and told the bosses and that night they came to his house, dismantled his car. The the phone was, you know, they took off the wires, entered the house, and shot him in the hip, you know, the joint, where he couldn’t stop bleeding, even if they tried to stop bleeding. So my niece was about eight or six, eight. So she was trying to count how many people were, were in the house. And they shot her too. They shot her in the leg and they left. So my sister was crying and crying. And of course, tried to use the phone, they couldn’t use the phone, had to walk and reach somewhere, get someone to help her. Call a brother, brother was far away to come and take them to hospital. Actually, he died at the gate of the hospital while he walked. And there was so so so. And you know, I I I had that hatred. I said, “you know, this country’s, you know.” So I told my sister I’m leaving. I said, “you know, going, I don’t know where I’m going. But I don’t want to live here anymore.” So I left Uganda, I went to Kenya, stayed there suffering. Kenya was not an easy country to live in, too. It was my next door neighbor. Then from there, I left I went to Nigeria, and worked in Nigeria. I went to Nigeria, you know, worked there at the university as a secretary. And uh the meanwhile, you will work on contracts, the contract finishes, they don’t want to renew it. I don’t want to go to Uganda. You know. Where do I go next? And during that time, I had a child. I got a baby and here I was. But I had friends who are from Rwanda. And they were experienced with refugees and how to immigrate, how to apply for things to work. So they told me, said, “you should apply to go to Canada.” I said, “how do I do this?” So they told me what to do but they left and went to Canada and left me Nigeria. And and then it was good, will have this one day. I used to work for the the bus of the university. And one time there was an ambassador who came to the university from Canadian embassy. And this, I had talked to friends whom I told them I said, “I want to leave. I want to go to Canada. I want to.” They say, “the ambassador is coming. You should go and meet him. Maybe maybe he can do something.” So I went and met the ambassador. So I met him. I shook his hand. And I said, “you know, I’m interested in immigrating to Canada.” I said “you…” He said, “okay, this is my phone number. This is my card.” So after that, the rest is history. I go to I, you know, he went back to the to the embassy in in in Lagos. Within a within a month I heard from him and said you know application has been approved. You need to come to register in the embassy. You know, that process. So we went to with my daughter was she was about two. We went to to the embassy, uh registered. It goes on and on for some for like six months or so. But you know, all my focus was okay, what life is it for my daughter? Where do I take this kid to grow? I don’t want to take her to Uganda. I don’t want to stay Nigeria. Was where am I going to take this daughter of mine. So we left, we left Nigeria. We went and resettled in Canada. Canada was a heaven for me. I love Canada very much. And but it’s a struggle too. You’re a single parent. You want to go to school. You want to do this. You want to do that. I couldn’t do those things because I couldn’t leave my daughter alone in the house. Anyway, I had friends from, from Kenya, who was a professor at BU. And he knew my dreams. He knew that I wanted to go back to school this. I had met him in Nigeria. And so I explained to him I said this. He said, “Well, if you applied to the university and you are accepted, you can come and live with us, was myself and my wife.” His wife is my friend too. Said, “you can live with us, and you know, as long as you can pay your school fees, you know, your tuition.” So I applied to BU. I was accepted. And then he gave me, I worked on campus. I had had two jobs actually on campus. I work, summer I had I had actually summer I had three jobs during summer. I worked in the print shop. I worked, I painted dorms. Those those some of those Binghamton University dorms, I painted them. And I had that job. I had, I had three jobs, and then I worked in professor’s office. So that’s how I managed to pay my tuition at BU, then at the same time supporting my daughter because she was at that age. She needs nice clothes, nice shoes, nice this and that but you know. You sacrifice everything. You say, well, I have worn enough clothes. You know, I don’t need more clothes. What I have is enough, as long as she’s happy, she’s, you know. So that’s how I came to Binghampton. And then my daughter went to Harvard after high school she did. And I’m proud to say she’s now a doctor and Lisa knows her.

Goretti 16:53  

So that was my journey here. But I’m still here in America because my daughter wanted to live here. We came. Our plan was I finish school, we go back to Canada, but it didn’t work that way. She said, Oh, I have made friends here. I don’t want to go to Canada anymore. I want to live here. I said, Well, I’m, that’s the life for you. You want to live here, you live here. I will, I will stay with you. So.

Lisa  17:21  

So your daughter Maria Maria. She’s a doctor. And I know she’s been on the frontlines during COVID. Uh really, really incredible, important work that she’s doing. And you also continue to work and support people through this time. Hm Have you passed on or shared any Ugandan cultural practices of her?

Goretti  17:52  

Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, I said, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t like my country. But I like my culture. Culture is very important to me. So in my culture, you know, when you’re born, you are given a name, and you’re given a pet name. So we have pet names and there are 12 pet names. I have and they you know, my pet name is Akiiki. And there might be another Akiiki there. But in my household, I’m the little Akiiki. Because growing up, you know, is more and more. You know, we respect people because of their age. We don’t go by according you know, then we don’t call them by name. We call them by pet names. You can’t call. My daughter can’t come and say “hey, Auntie Lisa.” No, no, no, no, no, no. Auntie Lisa has to have a pet name, which when you call her. Or Auntie Akiiki, Auntie Awali, Auntie Amorty, you know. And then you do it in such a way that you you have to bend down a little bit and they have to touch you or they have to acknowledge you. And anybody who walks in the door you have to know their pet name. If you don’t know, you just asking, whisper, “what’s her pet name?” So because you don’t want them “you don’t know my pet name?” You know, no, you don’t you don’t want to be disrespectful. So so my daughter has a pet name. Her pet name is Atworki. And that really makes us so proud, makes her feel that “Yeah I’m Ugandan, they know. I have a pet name.” You know, that’s what we can talk about, pet names.

Lisa  19:25  

Thank you so much for sharing that. Um I know um just how much you have dedicated to Broome County, and also the fact that you have another job too, besides being an immigration caseworker here. What is that?

Goretti  19:44  

So you know, so when I go to Master’s in social work, but during my that time, I was working as part time working with people who are, you know, people with developmental challenges, developmental difficulties. So I was working there at night and go to school during the day. So after I finished my master’s degree then one of the managers there asked me, said, “why don’t you apply here for a permanent job as a as a social worker? And I said, “Really?” So yeah, I applied the, I got a job as a behavior specialist, and full time. That’s five days a week, and benefits. Then a friend of mine, Andrew was, he had offered me a job here. He said, You know, we are going to resettle refugees would you? No I was looking for a second job because I have student loans, I have, you know, the expenses to pay for. So that that work, which I’m doing now, that now is not enough for me to pay my student loans and support my daughter, do all kinds of things. So, you know, sorry to say, but jobs in social work, they don’t pay a lot. They pay very little. So I work with people who are mentally handicapped, mentally disabled. And uh I like it, really. It’s challenging. It’s, I like I like their programs, and they supervise houses, they live in group homes. I support them in every way I can. And that’s my, my first, actually my first job and this. I call this my first job too. They are all my first jobs. I love them. Yeah.

Lisa  21:18  

Goretti, you touched so many lives. I, um, you, I don’t know if I could keep up with you. I don’t think I could. Thank you so much for sharing your time. I’m just so glad that you were willing to share your experience. And also, I appreciate very much you sharing a bit about your own journey, and how you left your country. And eventually as a single mother re-migrated multiple times, and arrived here. So thank you Goretti. And I guess we’ll we’ll we’ll talk again, right?

Goretti  21:59  

Yeah. I really want to thank you for having this interest in refugees and immigrants because most of us are immigrants and refugees. People don’t understand their stories. They don’t understand our stories. They think it’s just a name, is, you know. There’s there’s a person behind, you know, this type, these names and, but I'm so glad you have taken this interest and I thank you so much.

Lisa   22:22  

All right. Well, thank you to all the listeners. Thank you.

Kaylee  0:00 

A hot chocolate pot that’s passed down from your own mother is not something that you can buy in a new country or even in a country that doesn’t really have hot chocolate or she didn’t even know.

Shuti  0:15 

Welcome back to Immigrants Wake America. This is a podcast where storytellers share their family histories and the centrality of women in their life stories. I am Shruti Jain.

Le  0:27 

And I am Le Li. We are PhD students at SUNY Binghamton University, and we are the hosts and producers of this podcast. Today, our guests are Priscilla Martel, and Kaylee Sanabria. Priscilla is a flavor maven, chef and food consultant living in Connecticut. She is also a successful cookbook author and recipe developer. Kaylee was a Binghamton University student, and is now working in the corporate fashion industry in New York.

Shruti  1:02 

Priscilla and Kaylee talk to us about how the different objects that get passed on across generations form intergenerational bonds among women. They share the role that their grandmothers and mothers play in their lives and also discuss the pitfalls of mythologizing the grandmother figure in immigrant history.

Priscilla  1:23 

So I chose um to write about my grandmother, Mary, Mary Sheridan or Maria Pilarski. That was her born name. And she and her family emigrated from Poland during a time of strife. The Russians were occupying Poland and they were, Poles were leaving. They were really forced to leave the country like refugees. So she was about 12 or 14, landed at Ellis Island with her sister and parents, met her uncle and family and went to the steel town of Dinorah PA, which still has a large Polish American community. And she ended up working in an inn. And in her life, food became really important to her as it is to me. Um at some point, she met an Irish American named Patrick Sheridan and they moved to Connecticut where she lived, grew up and gave birth to my mom.

Kaylee  2:12 

My mother was born and raised in Columbia. And she immigrated to the United States in 1992 when she was only 22 years old, which is crazy to think about, because I’m actually 21 years old. So it’s crazy to think that one year from now, my mom, almost at my age, moved to a country where she barely spoke English. And my grandma ended up moving to the United States as well, after my mom shortly had me after she met my dad. So she was in New York, which is where I was born and raised. And that's where we still currently are today. And uh my grandmother was there to help my mom um when I was growing up. And my grandma was also a really big part of my life and growing up as a child. And to this day, my grandma still comes and visits from Columbia now and then.

Priscilla  2:59 

So as I mentioned, my grandmother was a really good cook, and that carried on into my life with my grandmother. Everyone lusted after her cream puffs and the stories of her making pies and feeding the neighborhood when my mother was growing up are well known in the family. So I chose her war ration cards, I have her hers and my mother’s and my grandfather’s as well as her sugar thermometer that I still use. It's very old and beat up, but it still works and puts me in direct touch with her. And I chose the ration cards because she was able to feed this family and really well, nobody, no one ever talked about anything lacking in these delicious sweets. So I look at the card and I figure out how was she able to take that small amount of sugar and do this that math. Sadly, I didn't think ahead and ask her. I thought I knew these answers. And this is my suggestion to anyone who thinks they know all they want to about their family. But try to remember to ask those questions. Or as you get older, you perhaps have different insights into things. But I chose that because it really tells a story about how her determination and love of cooking for the family really made her push through. Um that that’s what inspired me to choose that about my grandma.

Kaylee  4:21 

Um so the object that I chose was a hot chocolate pot. And this is an item of comfort to me and the item that reminds me of my immigration story. An item that ties me back to my family um was definitely this hot chocolate pot just firstly because food is definitely the most important bond in my family. And it is actually one of the only things other than culture or traditions that were passed on in my family as well. So this hot chocolate pot was passed down from my grandmother to my mother, who ultimately is going to pass it down to me once I have my own family in the future. And I have so many memories of both my mom and my grandma cooking it on a Sunday morning and me going to join them even wanting to learn how to make it. Um and it's something very unique and specific to Colombian culture. Since our hot cocoa or our hot chocolate is actually made from a raw bark of chocolate that you have to grind and you have to boil it. It's like a bark. It’s super hard to break with your hands like you need a grinder. And you need a stir it consistently for around like 10 to 15 minutes, there’s a specific recipe to it. And my grandma actually added cinnamon and cloves and she added a special touch to the recipe which was also very unique to my own specific family.

Priscilla  5:38 

Gosh, for me, um, I I could not make a good pie. And I am a professional cook and baker. I've owned restaurants, I could not make a good pie until my grandmother went to the great, you know, kitchen in the sky. So she made a wonderful apple pie and they just seem to come out of her fingers like like nothing. You know, it was it was no effort. But also this these cream puffs and this Christmas, we're recording this near Christmas time. One of the guests at our table talked about my grandmother's cream puffs. And my grandmother hasn't sat at our table in over 25 years. So it was that strong an image of these little puff pastries with the creamy filling, brought to the table in a dress box. And I like to think of that, that memory of my grandmother. Both my grandmothers were terrific cooks. My grandmother, gran, grandmother that we’re speaking of, Mary Sheridan, worked in a private home of wealthy people and she was the cook. She cooked that American food. She left home early. So she was making swans down cake and date nut pudding and those things. My other grandmother was French, and she grew up in a family of 13 and had a family of seven. And she cooked, she was an incredible cook, more of a cook cook and grandma was the baker. There's no question that they had an influence, indirectly or, indirectly, because it wasn't as if that was the career path that I saw. But the love of eating and the art of the table, and the long meals with the family around the table and all that the family comedy that plays itself out at those gatherings when you had the aunts and the uncles from with my father’s side, or my grandmother would was with us. And it gave me the palette too.

Kaylee  7:29 

A hot chocolate pot that’s passed down from your own mother is not something that you can buy in a new country or even in a country that doesn’t really have hot chocolate, or she didn’t even know. So I think the hot chocolate pot to her meant um, almost reminded her of home and it also reminded her of my grandma. But I think it also reminded her of the bond that she had with her family every morning, every night when they sat down at the dinner table similarly to what we were talking about how food really does bring us together. And this hot chocolate pot to me really symbolizes I think like strength and courage from my mother that left home at age 22, which is crazy to me because I’m gonna graduate college at 22. And by that time, my mom had already graduated college and moved to the US. So when I think of this pot, I really do, other than food and culture and family, I see different meanings behind it like determination and the fearlessness aspect that my mother had of just kind of picking up and leaving and not really knowing what the other side of the end was going to look like. Um, it's um incredible.

Priscilla  8:37 

They had very little, you know, this is that early migration, it would be, you know, 107 years ago that they came. So their prayer books in Polish and a few pieces of jewelry that are clearly from afar. And I used to wear an embroidered blouse that was very old when I was a kid I wore it. But this conversation, Kaylee, remind me of a very simple object that may or may not have come from Poland, but certainly from the whole of that family. And it's a piece of wood a long about two inches, uh maybe by say 20. And that was used to grate the cabbage to make the sauerkraut. It's such a modest thing. And it's a good symbol of of the humility and the struggle of feeding yourself from that that tough vegetable. But I hadn't thought about it, Kaylee, until you were talking about this object but but there’s no question that came from the Polish side of the family and it's from so long ago I never even got it to got to see it in use.

Priscilla  9:50 

So I teach food writing at a community college in New Haven. And we often use family stories as a way to get people feeling comfortable writing because we have our family stories, you don’t have to do that much research. And grandma, the beloved grandma comes out. And what happens is the myth gets in the way of the reality. Now not to say you're going to find that your grandmother is some unappealing person, but it blocks us from looking at the life that they lead. And, you know, maybe not recognizing the struggles they had, or how the different context of their life and the different expectations. Uh clearly for a woman of my grandma, either my grandmother's age is, raising a family was the career goal. The grandma we’re speaking of, she got to be a professional cook in a house, you know, and, and bring home money from serving other people, but based on her food. The other grandmother didn't have to work except to feed her family. And, you know, each one has interesting personalities. And with the distance of time, my because of my age, and my grandmother being gone for a while, I can see their roles, these two grandmothers in the development of my family, as opposed to just that halo of the warm feeling of our grandmother. I mean, she’s the one that brought the brownies. She’s the one that slipped the $20 to my brother when he was a little boy or bought him his favorite toy, you know. Um but if we, if we can just peek behind that curtain a tiny bit, and think of the humanity of these women, uh it’s the grandmother that’s eulogized, I think that we will find much more, that’s enriching. So I buried my mother this summer at 96. She died during COVID, but not of COVID. Um and we buried her right next to my grandmother. So I am very much close to the emotions of my family and their impact on me. Now, as I close up that chapter, you know, and clean up her affairs and think about being apart from them. And now I’m gonna get teary. I hadn't planned on that. I I have so much more interest in the rich texture of their lives, and what they brought, you know, Grandma from the old country, as they would say, how she passed that to my mother, and the ways that my mother was able to take it and build a really interesting life.

Kaylee 12:17 

Like Priscilla was mentioning earlier, I kind of went from having this like, perfect idea, image of my grandmother, that she obviously spoil me, always cook for me, um always play with me, which is something that I faced because I was an only child. So to me, my grandma was almost like, like a built-in best friend. But as I got older, I realized that my grandma is an extraordinary woman who, who had so many challenges and faced so many hardships when she was very young. I’ve viewed my grandma as stronger than I ever thought I could. And that’s something that she 100% passed down to my mother. And I think that connection between me and my mom and my grandma has like really affected and changed the perception of like my own identity. Um I definitely see a lot of myself in them, and same thing vice versa. Now that I'm graduating college. I'm actually going to be working in corporate fashion. And I think I developed that love for clothing and fashion and all of that because of her. And then my mom taught me like strength and determination and resilience. And her fearless nature is something that I admire every single day. And I definitely see that in me. And when I went away to school, I was really determined, determined with what I wanted and the goals that I wanted to have. And I always knew that I wanted to work in corporate fashion and it took my mom’s strength that determination that I got from her to really make that dream a possibility, especially going, I go to SUNY Binghamton so it’s not a school that you think of fashion when, when you first think about it, but I really made that dream a reality from kind of incorporating the two things that I learned from like the two strongest idols and heroes and women in my life.

Kaylee  14:11 

I really think everyone should dive deep and really think about their own immigration story. Even if you don’t think you have one you definitely do and dive deep. It is something that it’s a little scary and can be intimidating if you don’t know where to start. But I think you learn so much about yourself in the process and you learn to appreciate your family members so much more. That answers a lot of questions about yourself as well.

Priscilla  14:36 

And I agree with you completely Kaylee and especially how objects for most people. And that is an easy like a lift off point to open up to a story. And I think that's the beauty of the Tenement Museum’s concept, whether it’s a scarf, or a candlestick, or a chocolate pot or a photocopy of a recipe, whatever it is, that can tell that can be the jumping off point that helps the individual tell their story. It’s really, really magical.

Kaylee  15:10 

Everyone has an immigration story. And that’s the beauty of the United States. And that’s the beauty of this country. And the beauty of the melting pot is that all of us stem from somewhere.

Priscilla  15:21 

It’s true. I also like what you said, Kaylee, um we’re all immigrants. Some people’s families came, you know, in the early days of the settling of the country, but anything might inspire them as well to think about what their connection is to the land and the past. But a lot of what’s cool about the idea of the Tenement Museum, which memorializes a lifestyle that was pretty harsh, is a lot of immigrant stories do have that as a connection, somebody came here because they left for that better opportunity or an image of whatever the United States represents. So I think that’s why it’s a perfect home for these stories, despite your background.

Shruti  16:05 

Thank you for joining us today. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Immigrants Wake America. For more conversations and explorations, please listen to our future episodes available on all major streaming platforms. We have linked our social media and website in the description box. We would be happy to hear your thoughts and feedback. See you next time. Until then, take care and stay safe.

Shruti  0:04  

Welcome back to Immigrants Wake America. This is a podcast where storytellers share their family histories and the centrality of women in their life stories. I am Shruti Jane.

Le  0:16  

And I am Le Li. We are PhD students at SUNY Binghamton University. And we’re the hosts and producers of this podcast. Today our guests are Kojo Senoo and Max Kurant. Kojo was a student at Binghamton University, and currently works as a photographer in New York City and at the Tenement Museum. Max is a student at Binghamton University, who is actively involved in work related to community engagement.

Shruti  0:49  

Kojo and Max talk about how they perceive their personal identity, their relationships with their families, and the conflicts or contradictions they negotiate within their families and in the world at large.

Kojo  1:04  

Originally, she’s from Ghana, which is in West Africa. More specifically, that’s the Volta Region, which is alongside the Volta River, which is kind of considered its own specific region with its own specific people. So that’s in East Ghana, and in the region, is also considered part of Togo, which is the country direct directly to the east of Ghana. So um the people that you know, are from that region are considered Ewe people. Um Ewe that’s that’s spelled E W E. So that was, if I remember the year correctly, that would have been 1976. And as for specific reason, um, I’m not sure. But I can’t imagine it’d be too different than the same reasons that anyone from the global south would have moved to America or moved to New York in that time, which is just, you know, there's just always been this sense of greater economic opportunity.

Max  2:17  

So my mother is from the country of Uzbekistan, specifically, it’s capital city Tashkent. And she emigrated to America during the early 1990s. My father, they’re both from the same city, and they met there. And then my dad and his family, they moved to America first. He kept visiting my mother. And then she eventually moved to join him there. They were, like Kojo said, going for better economic opportunities. And yeah, like, since she’s been here, she established herself in the fashion world, she was a pattern designer, she worked in Garment Avenue in New York City. That’s kind of her journey.

Kojo  2:51  

You know, she’s the parent and the Son. Like, even though I’m like, I’m a whole adult now. Like, that still is like, I’m her son, more so than anything else. So um I would say I think there are some, you know, like very clear cultural differences, um that manifest themselves ideologically in terms of like, how we view the world that also impact like, what our relationship is, like, I know where she isn’t, it’s very different from where I am, you know, she’s my mom, I love her. And like, obviously I was like, such a great respect for everything that she’s done, just like throughout her life. And I know I touched upon in my story, like a lot of the sacrifices he’s had to make. Just as you know, a woman, like, immigrating here to America, let alone one who’s like a single mother, right?

Max  3:49  

My mother’s background is definitely very different I think like from like yours um went through like immigrating here, her relationship with you. I really do relate to like, when you were saying that, like that, I guess that like how you word it like that cultural presence is definitely felt of like her like home culture. It’s actually interesting, because for me, I have seen that presence changing a lot as my mother gets more and more kind of Americanized and modernized. Because I always have a tough time connecting to my home culture, because Russian culture is much more conservative than at least my own, like culture where I find belonging. Um I’m very much of that, you know, like left leaning left wing, like liberal um mindset. But lately, she’s started to become so much more understanding. Like we’re able to actually have really good conversations that are really self-aware, where she feels like she can only talk about something with me, because I’m kind of like the one who like she who gets her a lot. Like that’s something I’ve had to understand and explore a lot myself over the past couple of years, about how like, I have such a big role to her as her like oldest son. Like in the story that I was talking about my manti pot. Um like this thing she would like to cook in um my family for special occasions. Um the most memorable part of uh what she shared about with me about it was that she would like make these manti little dumplings with this community of other like Muslim women, like over in Tashkent. There’s a big like Muslim culture there, presence. I think she just doesn’t really have that exactly here. I’m kind of like her confidant.

Kojo  5:22  

Yeah, I think as a result of, of, I guess, that um that kind of separation from the rest of the family. There, there honestly aren’t even too many things that I know she has or does that’s, I guess, like, connected back to the culture. So for me, it’s, it’s even if it’s even less so. But one thing that she does definitely have on me, is how she, I guess, cooks, I guess things are a lot more traditional to Ghanaian food, such as Fufu. I know, that’s a very popular one, even here in America. She’ll make that every now and then. And I’d say that’s like a pretty good clear indication like, oh, yeah, she, you know, she’s from Ghana. That’s definitely I think, if anything, probably, I guess, the the most like immediate and the most distinct link back to the culture. So food. I think, though, I think that’s the case for like a lot of people, food being such an important factor in terms of, I guess, like, feeling back at home or having, I guess, some sort of linkage back to where you’re coming from. And I guess in terms of like, how that’s passed down.

Max  6:41  

So my, my entire dad’s side is Jewish. My mom’s mom is Muslim. And that’s like what she’s like, most closely connected to, um and my mom’s dad as Christian. Um so there’s all these different religions around me. Um but we don’t really practice anything like at home. I personally identify as an atheist, but I also understand how, like these different religions um have a like, at least how my parents and their like parents and their families identify with them and have identified with them. It definitely plays like direct and indirect influence has a direct and indirect influence on my life and else, but I know she like cares a lot about that, because it kind of connects her um to, um to her mother who’s since passed.

Kojo  7:24  

I personally have never been religious. I think my mom is has always kind of been one of those that’s like religious in the sense that like, you pray when you need something that happened. You know. The first things I remember learning about religion literally come from watching The Simpsons as a kid. Whereas for me, it was never really like a day-to-day thing. So. So I feel like a lot of people, like a lot of children of like immigrants, there there obviously, is like this huge trope in terms of I guess, like living to like parental expectations. As, you know, like the second generation or first I honestly don’t know, there’s always this this trope that yeah, like, they’re they came here; they worked hard. They like set like the route for you to go to college, get like another serious person job, and I guess, earn a lot of money, which I mean, even if you were to follow that route, who is to say considering, I guess the economic situation we’re in right now. I I just grew up with, like, a type of mindset that I really wouldn’t care about that sort of thing. And, you know, to enormous credit to my mom, I think she she pretty much understood that. I think there’s like a whole almost like inter-familial, like competition, when it comes to a lot of these immigrant families in terms of like, oh, yeah, well, my son, he’s doing so well in school right now, you know, actually just, you know, made the honor roll dean’s list. And this is gonna be like, in med school pretty, like the fact that, you know, she, she hasn’t really cared about that, because he doesn’t really talk to them, I think has definitely less than any sort of pressure that I wouldn’t be on because I feel like if that was the case, I would, I would have a lot of explaining to do, you know, at Thanksgiving, that type of thing. You know, like, I’d be like, been grilled by like uncles, and stuff like that.

Max  9:39  

There are exactly 20 days until I have to give that exact same explanation. I also very much relate to that feeling of like I had to like like rebelling. But the thing is, I'm still doing it to this day. Like I always feel like what I'm doing to my dad especially and to the rest of my family might as my mom, she's just very supportive of what I’m doing. It’s like an active rebellion and it affects me in a lot of ways. Um like, I like I’m the type person who, like, I have a very, I have very little awareness of what I’m doing, like, well, if I’m not doing good stuff. So everyone around me is like, oh my god, like, look at all these things you’re doing, like, you know, your grades are great, like you’re doing these projects. But for my dad, it’s always an explanation. It’s like, it’s pretty painful. Um it leads me to do like pretty cool stuff. So it’s like, I’m kind of like, even though he’s not, here, he’s here. The influence that people who raised us and in our lives have on us, and I feel that rebellion, constantly. I’m counting down the days till Thanksgiving, and I’m just thinking, Okay, well, how much of my work? You know, do I disclose? Do I? Do I share that I’m planning to do research on racism at Binghamton with my very conservative family that doesn’t believe it’s real. We’ll see, how much I feel to do that. But I always kind of want to, like, I never want to hide who I am. But yeah it’s constant rebellion.

Kojo  11:04  

My mom, like I said earlier, she’s Ewe. Uh she speaks the Ewe language, which is, again, like regional to that part of Ghana, as well as Togo. I grew up learning it. However, when I was in pre-K, or not even necessarily pre-K. I was like in daycare, I believe. Um I used a word in Ewe, because I guess, you know, when you’re that young, you don't really delineate between, I guess, like the different languages in your head. Um, and I guess I said a word that sounded like it could be offensive in the English language towards I guess, like one of the one of the workers there at the daycare. And I mean, like, she complained about it to my mom. And as a result, my mom just stopped teaching me Ewe. And I mean, since then, I haven’t really, there wasn’t any, like, attempt for me to like relearn it, or continue learning, you know, back then. So I just never, I just never learned it. Although it doesn’t really affect my life too much. Because, like I said, don’t really have too much connection to the rest of the family. It still, it’s like, I really could have known like, a second language like, and, you know, just because I called a daycare worker. I don’t remember the exact word but it kind of sounded like caca, which I mean, yeah.

Max  12:43  

I have a funny connection to that, um to that word, specifically. Um for whatever reason, when I was little, I always called my grandma Kaka, it means I don’t think it has any special meaning in Russia. I just like, I guess I heard her saying one that was her name. So till the day she passed, and that is to this day, kind of how I think about her. Wow I have not thought about that and like yours. So Kaka, yeah. For me, um my mom speaks Russian. Um um That’s her native language. It’s also my, kind of my native language. It’s the language that I first learned. Um I grew up speaking Russian in my house, I, I still do speak fluent Russian. Although it’s um to my grandpa and my parents, I’m like a walking humor machine when they hear me speak Russian. I remember I had this phase of physical rebellion comes up here, where when I was learning English in life, not when I was like five or six, so like, kindergarten, first grade, second grade kind of vehement vehemently I really did not want to know Russian anymore. I was like, Screw this language. I want to be American. I don’t want to have these like weird school lunches, give me a give me Lunchables. I don’t want to learn this darn language. That also like you Kojo, I sometimes just like say words by accident. So for a while, I just didn't want to like speak Russian. Um But I was like, Screw this language. And then a couple years later, I was like, Wait, and I don’t want to lose it. So I tried to like really like learn it again, and just really start speaking it again. And I feel warm whenever I speak to people on Russian. Um Even though I don’t fully relate to the culture, I can hold a good conversation. And I’ve used it like whenever I’ve done, like any like, I used to do a lot of political campaigns, so I’d speak to people in Queens in Russian too. But then I have to be careful for the conversations to not take a unexpected turn. Because when you’re speaking Russian, I think it also gives you the idea that you’re pretty conservative too. Like yeah, it feels nice when I’m able to like speak to other people in Russian. It feels a little warm and like I’m connected to them even though I don’t fully agree with a lot of the values of the culture. It’s like this really weird paradox where it’s like I feel so connected to you. But also, I could not like see a person I’m more different from but it’s also like wow, like we see the world so differently. And I’m trying to understand my role and my privilege in it. So it’s this like big like disconnect there.

Shruti  15:11  

Thank you for joining us today. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Immigrants Wake America. For more conversations and explorations, please listen to our future episodes available on all major streaming platforms. We have linked our social media and website in the description box. We would be happy to hear your thoughts and feedback. See you next time. Until then, take care and stay safe.

Theresa  0:03  

In America, I think like the best part is that we’re all from different places. So we’re all like, like interacting. So I think like as time goes on, like, you just get like a blended identity but I think that's, like, what makes us who we are.

Le  0:18  

Welcome back to Immigrants Wake America. This is a podcast where storytellers share their family histories, and the centrality of women in their life stories. I am Le Li.

Shruti  0:30  

And I am Shruti Jain. We are PhD students at SUNY Binghamton University, and we are the hosts and producers of this podcast. Our guests today are Phariha Rahman and Theresa Alarcon. Both Phariha and Theresa have been Binghamton University students, and involved in community engagement.

Le  0:52  

Phariha and Theresa talk about the memories of their grandmothers and the complications of stereotypes about immigrants and their descendants. They also discuss how the bonds and values constructed around food influence their sense of self and belonging.

Phariha  1:12  

So my parents are originally from Bangladesh, and they moved to America in, like, the, early 90s. I think my grandfather, so my mom’s dad, he moved here first. And like he had a job, and I guess, kind of built life a bit. And then I believe my mom, and her brothers and her mom joined him eventually. And then I think she got married to my dad after that. And then he moved to America, because he married her.

Theresa  1:47  

So um, my story is about my grandma on my dad’s side. She came to the US when she was 19 years old. She came from Puerto Rico, Cabo Rojo, and she came because she wanted to get a nursing degree in the States. So both my parents were born in New York, my mom was born in Queens, and my dad was born in Manhattan. And we've been in New York kind of ever since. So I think that food just really brings everyone together. Um like, who isn’t excited for food during the holidays. So the reason I chose empanadas um is for that reason, you know, every holiday on my dad’s side, I just look forward to the empanadas. And on my dad's side, like, at least at home, we don't like speak Spanish. And we don’t, I guess, like talk about our culture that much. But when it's with my cousins and uncles, and when my grandparents were alive, like, we had different types of like Puerto Rican food, and like the staple was the empanadas. So that’s just what I remember most. And although I didn't ever make them with my grandma, she passed down the recipe like to her sisters, and then they, like taught their children. So I’ve made them with my cousins. And it’s just a nice way I think, to bring people together and have a common memory of someone. So like, if I think of my grandma, I would think of like her making empanadas in the kitchen. Even even though she passed away when I was just seven years old, I still like remember her and her empanadas. I didn’t know her too well. But she was this this just this like awesome woman, kind of like the queen of the house. And the stories I’ve heard about her were just that she was like the sweetest woman and we call her “ma.” But yeah, so I think she definitely had an impact. I love cooking and baking. So I’ve even made empanadas on my own. And as I got older my dad and I every Thursday we’d go to our like local store and get empanadas. And it was just a tradition at school like everyone knew empanada Thursday where I would bring empanadas in. So I think that, that this memory just really was a big part of my life, and even after she left.

Theresa  4:03  

Um I think for me, so I was really close to my grandma when I was little. So I used to always visit her. She lived in Brooklyn, and we lived like Poughkeepsie, which is about two hours away. But I would always visit her like all the time and stayed with them. And I think I wrote in my story about how like we used to feed pigeons raw rice together, which really stuck out to me. And I think also like with my mom, I think something that like I just learned from them, like, you know, feeding pigeons, or just giving food away, was just like, I guess like tenderness and like the importance of giving to others. With my parents, I think food is the one place like where we connect the most. Because you know, like when I, I can speak Bengali but my accent’s not as good. I also don’t really understand any dialects. People have told me that I sound a little stuck up when I speak because it’'s very, very proper like because I speak the way my dad talks. But when it comes to food, like I eat the same things that they do, like I have the same taste. And I get think recently because I’m living on my own now, like I’m learning to cook. And so I’ll make things like rice and daal and I’ll like send my parents pictures. And I'm not the best at it. Like, I’ve definitely messed up a lot. And I've had to like call my mom. But yeah, so I think that’s, that’s definitely one place where I think we connect a lot on it. And I think that’s something something that I connect with my culture a lot on. Like, something I’ve noticed is that, you know, like, English is my first language, I tend to think in English. But when it comes to like food items, oftentimes the words I use, like the first words that come to my mind are like in Bengali, because that’s what I usually I usually talk to my parents about food. Yeah.

Theresa  5:58  

So like I mentioned before, on my dad’s side, his, his mom was from Puerto Rico, dad from Colombia. And then their like, parents or grandparents were from Spain. And then on my mom’s side there, she’s like, fully Italian. So I’d say food is definitely a big part on both sides. But in terms of bringing it into the house, not so much anymore. Like my dad had more of the cultural influence influence, like, his mom and dad would speak to the him and his brothers in Spanish, and then they would respond in English. But for me, like, I don’t speak Spanish. I’ve, I’m in a Spanish class now. And I’ve taken Spanish all through, like since elementary school, and like, I love learning about it. I just, it’s not really doesn’t come that easily to me. But I’ve been to Puerto Rico so so many times, I've been back to Cabo Lojo. And yeah, my dad definitely, like tells stories about like his family, but it’s not so much like part of the culture, which is why I think it makes it just much more special when I do have that food on the holidays. Because like, that’s what brings me back to like, my culture. And so yeah, I think like, I would definitely like to keep up the tradition of making empanadas and teach like, my friends and my kids. And because, I mean, who doesn't love them? They are pretty good. As time goes on, like I mentioned before, like, my dad knew Spanish or knew Spanish, and then responded in English, but I can like speak Spanish. I think like, as time goes on, it gets passed less and less, which is a little bit sad. Like, I think it would have been awesome if I could learn Spanish, but maybe because, you know, my mom was Italian and she didn’t speak Spanish growing up. Like, that’s the reason so I think like, not like that’s a bad thing. But I think in America, I think like the best part is that we’re all from different places. So we’re all like, like interacting. So I think like as time goes on, like the you just get like a blended identity. But I think that's like what makes us who we are.

Phariha  8:03  

Yeah, I can definitely relate to what Theresa said. I think you see that with my family as well. Like, even just like between my sisters and I. Like my sister, my older sister’s Bengali is better than mine. And I think mine is better than my little sister’s. Like, we progressively it just kind of become more Americanized, I think. And even between my parents, I think a big part of Bengali culture is you know, like respect for your elders. And I mean, I think between my grandparents, my parents and like me and my sisters, we all kind of have that. But I think we also demand more from our elders than the generation before. I think part of that is just the involvement of my grandparents. I think they were very, very involved with my older sister. My older sister spent, I think, like from when she was born, to I think like maybe like 10 years old in Brooklyn, living in the same house as my grandparents in an immigrant neighborhood. So she had a lot more just contact with Bengali people Bengali culture. I spent a lot of time in Brooklyn with them. But I went to school in a very white area. And my grandparents left the country moved back to Bangladesh when I was 11. So I didn’t have the same contact with them. And my little sister had very limited contact with them as well. She was born Upstate. never really knew Brooklyn. And I think she just, I think she has less contact with our relatives than me and my older sister.

Theresa  9:47  

So I have three older half siblings, two from my dad’s side and one from my mom’s side. And so on the dad’s side, they like knew my grandma loved her, and they’re much older than me, so they knew her well. And then my sister on my mom’s side, she’s still older than me but a little bit younger. But she currently lives in Puerto Rico. And she, like loves it there. So that's why I've gone like because my mom had a house in Puerto Rico. And so I it’s weird because I go with my mom’s side of the family to Puerto Rico, but my sister is fluent in Spanish. Oh my gosh, she is just so talented. Like, it just came to her so naturally. So I think like she’s, she got also got interested in it because of my dad's side of the family. And so it was interesting how like, like cultures and like families mixed, but I wish I picked up her skills in learning Spanish, because I think like, Phariha has said, like, as you go on, it’s a little harder to pick up the language or like, get that accent. Like for me, it just wasn’t spoken in the house at all. So I just learned in school. But my sister she’s like, lived in Puerto Rico the last couple years. So she’s been able to, you know, really absorb it, and she’s totally fluent now. I wish I hope I can learn some more Spanish in the future.

Phariha  11:11  

It’s definitely a conversation. I think, especially with my mom, I think she gets a bit more apprehensive. So I think especially in 2016, during the election, you had a lot of like anti-Muslim rhetoric. And she started getting very scared. And she started saying, like, don’t tell anyone you’re Muslim at school. She even at one point said, like, Oh, I think we should’ve given you a more American name, like, do you want to change your name? And I said, No, even though when I was little, I remember I tried to change it to Ashley. And I begged her. I said, like, can you change my name to Ashley, and she refused. And so it was kind of funny that it was flipped till years later. I think with my dad as well. Because my dad works in an insurance company, He works for the Affordable Care Act. And I think sometimes he’s, he’s never faced, like direct racism. But something I think he does get a lot of microaggressions, especially because he has an accent. And I think the trouble with him is that like, you know, I can identify and be like that that was a microaggression I think he has a little bit more trouble. And he gets a bit more hurt when it happens. And so I think we’ve talked about that. And he has asked me, like, “Has anything happened at school to you?” And I had like, somewhat of a similar experience, but less so because I speak English fluently. Where I think I knew a lot of people who they wouldn’t come out and say stuff like, “oh, I don’t like immigrants.” But they would say things like, “maybe about like illegal immigrants.” Like, “Oh, I think all illegal immigrants should be wrong.” You know, like things like if you learned about it a little bit, you might, it might sound a little off to you. But if you didn’t, it might sound totally normal.

Theresa  13:09  

Um so on my dad’s side, like, he, like, we look a certain way. Like, I don’t think I look Puerto Rican. Like, if so when I tell people, I’m um on my dad's side, his mom’s Puerto Rico, his dad's from Colombia. Like, they’re like, you’re not Hispanic, or like, you’re not Latina. I was like, but like I am, but I may not look it. So it’s a kind of like a weird thing for me to say, because I feel like people are judging me because I don’t look like the typical person from there. But I guess that kind of brings up topics of like, well, what does a typical person from a certain country look like? Like I think just for me, it’s like, is there a typical way someone’s supposed to look, because I think that’s what Americans think like everyone from China looks like this, or Bangladesh looks like this. So I think it’s important to know that people look different from all areas and like, you can, everyone’s unique. I think, I guess whoever’s listening to this, you could think about like something from your culture that reminds you of your immigration story. I remember when we did this project in our class, like, I was like, what object could I choose, but then when you like, looking into it more and finding out like the history of it, like, so many memories get brought up and stories and you get to talk to family members. So I think like, just everyone try to think about where your family came from, and it will bring back a lot of good things.

Phariha  14:38  

Um I think when I was taking this class, I started like learning more about my culture and heritage in a way I hadn’t previously. And now I’m actually getting a certificate as part of my master’s in genocide and mass atrocity prevention. And we were researching genocides and I realized there was one in Bangladesh, which I had actually grown up learning about, like my parents would show me documentaries, and we were talking about it all the time. And I realized only recently, like I did the math, and I was like, my dad was alive at that time. He would have experienced all this and he never told me, which, you know, that’s kind of a big thing to leave out when you talk about something to like, talk about it as if you’ve read it in a history book. Actually, you’re there. And so I’ve been learning about it a lot. And I guess I’ve been thinking about how to talk to my family about it, because it’s, it’s not something that’s talked about, I think it’s, it’s very taboo and very painful. And he was also very, very young at the time. And so he's told me a little bit. He did tell me that when he was younger, so his mom used to make food for like the freedom fighters. And I think he was, would have been, like seven years old at the time, and he would bring it to soldiers. And how this was this was very dangerous, because if he had gotten caught, it would have, it would not have mattered that he was seven years old, he would have been shot and killed. And which I just thought that was so I don’t know, I don’t even really know what we’re to call it like, like interesting, like sobering. It also made me like see him a little different. Because he had never talked about that. He’s not really someone. Like my dad’s kind of like, you know, your typical manly man, he doesn’t really talk about his feelings. He likes to just get things done. And I think it was the first time that I started to like, understand him a little bit and seeing his perspective. And it’s still something I’m working on, like, how to talk about that because I do want to learn about it, but also be sensitive that that was probably very dramatic. Definitely very dramatic.

Shruti  16:43  

Thank you for joining us today. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Immigrants Wake America. For more conversations and explorations, please listen to our future episodes available on all major streaming platforms. We have linked our social media and website in the description box. We would be happy to hear your thoughts and feedback. See you next time. Until then take care and stay safe.

Grandmother  0:00  

First I was supposed to go to Canada but the quota was filled. Then I was supposed to go to Australia. The quota was filled. Then the America. That’s why I came. I went to Germany. I got the boat from Germany. The boat that I came in is right there. It took us 11 days to come to this, to here. We went through a hurricane. I was 15.

Le  0:24  

Welcome back to Immigrants Wake America. This is a podcast where storytellers share their family histories, and the centrality of women in their life stories. I am Le Li.

Shruti  0:37  

And I am Shruti Jain. We are PhD students at SUNY Binghamton University, and we are the hosts and producers of this podcast. Our guests today are Nicole Perkins and Tori Atkins. Nicole and Tori are cousins, who have been trying to trace their grandmothe’'s life and history of immigration from Italy to the United States. In this episode, we see a unique blend of storytelling across generations.

Tori  1:09  

When she was two, her father passed away. And her mother didn’t think she’d be able to take care of her on her own. Because she also had a brother, a younger brother. And so her mother put her in an orphanage, the convent. And she stayed in that convent as the war progressed, and there were bombings. And the bombings got more intense and she was moved with the nuns and the other children to Trieste, is northern Italy. And she was there for not positive how long but throughout the war, right, Nicole? 

Nicole  1:54  

Yeah, I think she left Croatia when she was about eight, so like 1943 or 44. And then she ended up immigrating to the United States since she was 14. So I think she spent like six years in refugee camps and convents, and then she was applying to emigrate to few places. So Australia, Ireland, Canada. But unfortunately, the quotas for each of those places kept filling up. She struggled to find a placement. And then eventually she was placed in the United States, and she was, I believe in a refugee camp in Germany at the time. And she took a train and then she took a ship through Ellis Island, was in New York for a bit before she, we settled in Connecticut.

Tori  2:51  

So I had heard stories here and there from my grandmother. And then probably my early 20s, I was really interested in finding more answers. So I did dig into it a little bit more. And found like the ship manifest that Nicole found too, you know, showing her coming to Ellis Island. And but I was I was hit dead ends. Like I couldn’t find any other records. And then more recently found the same records Nicole found a couple of years ago from the Arolsen Archives, and eventually connected with her family in Italy, and found out her parents’ names like real names, and her grandparents names too. So that was exciting to find that out eventually.

Nicole  3:46  

Yeah, just to add to what Tori said, I was just curious about her background, um, just because she had said a lot of stuff growing up. I like knew that Tori had done some research. My sophomore year of college, we had to read mouse. We, it just kind of prompted me to have renewed interest in looking into her history. And so I was able to use, like US databases to find her immigration information. And then that’s how I found those papers, which was really interesting because my dad didn’t know that they existed. And so he wanted me to show them to my grandmother. So that that’s pretty cool. A lot of times people are in our family trying to understand what my grandmother went to went through just because it’s not like anything that any anybody else in our families had to endure. So I just kind of got interested in it.

Tori  4:49  

It is interesting. I had read mouse in two different classes as well, most recently in a graphic novel class, which makes sense because that’s what it is. It seems like a lot of our parents, like our parents and aunts, and uncles, really didn’t want to, I feel like they didn’t want to know so much about what our grandmother went through because it was too close. Like it was their mother and things it makes me think back to mouse. Why? Why he was able to do it, because he used the the cat and mouse, like it was a separation; it was easier to digest. And I feel like in that way, us being a generation apart, we’re further away from her that way. So we can look at this and not be so traumatized to hear about it. Like I’ve still can be sad about it. But my my mother, and I feel like other aunts and uncles, they didn’t really want to dig into this so much. I think it was too much for them.

Nicole  5:52  

I It definitely brought back a lot of memories for her, um, something that she was talking about when we showed her the papers was that she kept seeing these soldiers wearing half moon necklaces. And we looked it up later. And basically that was like the Nazi police. They would like, kill deserters. And so he was like telling us information was all through the eyes of like an eight year old or a nine year old. And so it was really interesting to see what the actual real world equivalent of that was, because it looked like just this just like necklace to her. She didn’t see it as an Army medallion. She saw it the way an eight year old would see what she’s like, you know, half moon necklace. I think the papers just also reminded her of just the uncertainty she felt at that time in terms of immigrating, um, and kind of the standard she had to adhere to in order to emigrate. And just, you know how uncertain she was at the time.

Tori  7:00  

We know she remembers having a brother, but then she was separated from him when she went into the orphanage. And no one knows. Like her, her cousin in Italy doesn’t know what happens. She doesn’t know. And then she never reconnected with her mother. So it’s just a mystery. We know his name was Giuseppe Giuseppe like, you know, Joe, in Italian. And he was younger. And that's all we know. And that’s, that’s another just dramatic part of her history is of not knowing.

Nicole  7:37  

From what I heard once it, once her, her area was Croatia initially, then Italy. Then when Italy left it was Croatia again, very briefly, and then it became Yugoslavia. And from what I’ve heard, I think once it became Yugoslavia, they’re not really sure where he went because I think the w kind of went up. It was hard to communicate with people.

Grandmother  8:06  

When I came to New York, I lived in a house with four girls so they could find your place. And I lived in the Bronx. And I was supposed to go with these people to live in Chicago. But they didn't want me. And then one day, they put me on a train on a train with this guy. This guy was, his name was Tulio. He, I know him, because he came from the boat, you know. So they put the two of us on a train, where I don’t know where I was going, because I can’t tell. I kept asking him “where the hell they are taking us?” You know what I mean? Because we were sitting together. So, he says, “I don’t know, Maria. I don’t know where we are going.” But anyway, so the train stops. This woman comes on a train, she grabs me by the hand, and she was saying something I could’t understand. Then she grabbed me by the hand and put me in a car. I didn’t say anything. So she took me over to her house. And that's what happened. That's why I lived there, on Division Street in Norwich.

Nicole  9:15  

She used to tell me a story when I was younger I remember, which was that she came to the place that she was staying in the Bronx. And they had given her and this girl this other Italian girl fur lined coats. And it was like the middle of the summer. But they still wore them because it was the nicest thing she’d ever owned. And she would say that, like they would walk around and they'd get strange looks and they did not care.

Tori  9:46  

That was probably the first thing we both found. It’s pretty easy to find. It’s a the ship manifest from the SS Sturgis. And what’s really striking about it is there’s on that one page, there’s probably twenty other people, and every single person has a country that they came from. But our grandmother’s were would be a country just says stateless.

Nicole  10:12  

I think it’s also just crazy, especially because like, it’s, as far as I know of in terms of like the Geneva Convention today, it’s illegal to leave someone stateless. So if a country gives you citizenship when you’re born, and then they take it away before you’ve obtained a new citizenship. That’s, that’s not something that’s allowed anymore. So it’s even outdated in that sense. And I also just think that’s unfortunate. That was a price of being a victim of colonization, and changing overs. Just forced assimilation. So like, she wasn’t good in, like, everything was in Italian, she spoke Italian, and I don’t think she there’s any trauma of learning Italian. It’s more so the trauma of you know, that’s isolating her from the language that used to be spoken. And kind of giving her a different culture. I know, genetically, she’s from the Balkans. Her family has been there for a long time. Italian has always been the language spoken there. So I think it’s interesting that they were able to just like do that, and how quickly and how widespread an implication that has, I think, at least what she said, she still identifies as Italian. Because that’s just the label she’s always known.

Tori  11:41  

Yeah, I would agree. And we asked her just a short time ago. And older people of a certain generation, they’re just like, they don’t dial into that so much. Maybe that’s person to person, but she's just like, no, like, Yeah, but yeah, I’m Italian. Like, she didn’t feel like well, maybe I’m a little bit this, some of you know, she doesn’t think of it that way.

Nicole  12:04  

The way it started for me was that my uncle and my other side of the family was doing a family tree. And so I was curious about it. And so then we got like a week free trial. And my freshman year of college, I was honestly procrastinating studying for a test, and I was just on ancestry. And I was able to trace my, like father’s paternal line all the way back to the 1500s. And then, my grandmother’s, I couldn’t go past her. So that just kind of I was definitely my curiosity was prompted, but I also was just thinking about how, I guess the unfairness of the fact that you know, a lot of people, my grandmother, we wanted to know her her story and her family line. And the fact that you could do that for her ex husband, because, you know, the last name and everything. I was just like she, I want to know more about her about her side of the family. And then yeah, when I was reading mouse, basically, the United States Holocaust Museum website has a database for like Holocaust survivors, as well as refugees. So I just searched her name. And then I had seen the ship manifest, knew the year that she'd emigrated. And I knew her maiden name, so that I just searched that. But with her year and her age, I was able to narrow it down more. And then that took me to a Swiss data bank that had that grouping. So I was able to just kind of go from there.

Tori  13:45  

And it seemed like so many records had been destroyed, due to bombings, you kind of get hopeless after a while, if you don’t come across anything. Our grandmother still has like a birth a copy of her birth certificate, something else and our aunt Gina had told me, yeah, right after she got copies of these records, the building was destroyed or something. I’ve always had a strong sense of pride for being Italian. I feel like it’s the most interest interesting part of my ethnicity. And then the other side of my family too, like I’m from the my father’s side is Sicilian. So I have like, a range of Italian ethnicity.

Nicole  14:31  

Yeah, I think, for me, it’s really interesting to learn about I think, most of all, it’s just impressive that my grandmother and like her mother, and like, just that they all survived despite all these odds, and, like, made it through so many things to be here today. And like the way that my grandmother, obviously, odds were stacked against her like being an eight year old living in an orphanage during like, one of the most deadly force in history. And yet despite that, like she came over to the US. She did it by herself like now she has a huge family. In terms of like, how it's framed, how I think about immigration, like, I’m definitely very interested in immigration because of it. I think, something for me when I was younger, specifically, like the peak of like the Syrian refugee crisis. I know for me, it definitely had me thinking a lot about how, you know, these were people who were in the same situation as she was where they were just like trying to survive, and how differently those circumstances were. It’s not necessarily easy to come to United States, not that it was at all for her at that point. But it’s definitely made me think a lot about immigration and just like seeing how much immigrating to United States allowed my grandmother to do I think it makes me think of that issue in a much more empathetic but also like, critical way in the sense that when when people do call, especially like politicians for being harsher on immigrants, or whatever they refer to immigrants is like aliens, like the way they think about us like that was my grandmother at one point, like she's not an alien. And so, you know, it's definitely altered my, my, my viewpoint on that. 

Nicole  16:26  

I think a lot of the immigrants today it’s not just that they have to try to get in on a quota. It’s that they are being attacked rhetorically, like by the country they’re trying to immigrate to. And then like, my grandmother was thankfully helped by like, Catholic Charities. And then the, I know, Tory was mentioning like the Irish Red Cross. Yeah, so they could speak, they could write in English so that they can apply for her. Whereas today, like we see documents being worded specifically misleading so that people whose first language is not English will fill it out improperly. I think even like physically, the fact that the last President tried to build a border wall like is a physical testament to the way that we view immigrants in the country. I also think that as as tough, as tough as it was for my grandmother, she has a white name, she’s white so like she didn't she doesn’t have to deal with that on top of it. She there was programs in place to kind of help her she had community support from other Italians, even though again, it was so hard for her. Um, but I think it's just seeing the extra hurdles that are being placed in the way people right now, is is just another thing. Her you know, being here today and having succeeded I think it's such a badass thing, not to swear but just it’s very cool of her.

Grandmother  18:06  

Well I’m on a wall there, in the Ellis Island. My name is, if you go to Ellis Island, you can see my name. I never went back to Ellis Island. I don’t want to go. I don’t want to go. I don’t care how cool it is. I don’t want to go. I don’t wanna see it. First when I got off the boat, I had all kinds of stickers here and stickers there. I was like a package. They keep you out. You don’t come when they, you don’t come. No no no... When you, when you land, you don’t come you gotta stay out, out in the water for 40 days, I think it is, or 30 days. “Quarantine.” Yeah…

Shruti Jain  0:00  

Welcome to Immigrants Wake America Season Two "Hidden Heroes in a Small Town." Come with us behind the scenes to talk with caseworkers and staff who assist refugees and immigrants in upstate New York. I am Shruti.

Lisa Yun  0:20  

I'm Lisa. Our guest today is Hussein, Adams, Director of the American Civic Association in Binghamton, New York. Hussein gives an overview of the breadth of critical work that immigration caseworkers do for the local community and for new immigrants and refugees. He also narrates his personal journey of migration as a Muslim man through the Caribbean and North America, and especially the impact of post 9/11 on him and his family. As a community leader and as a father, Hussein's story touches on the complexity and richness of becoming American today.

Lisa Yun  1:14  

I'd like to welcome Hussein Adams, the executive director of The American Civic Association here in Binghamton, New York. Thank you, Hussein, for joining us today.

Hussein Adams  1:25  

Thank you for inviting So

Lisa Yun  1:27  

Nationally, when people think of immigration in New York, they're thinking about New York City. What is going on up here? We're in upstate New York.

Hussein Adams  1:36  

We actually go back historically to the lot of the European migration that took place, and you know, that has continued for other nationals from other countries that are fleeing persecution, violence, seeking asylum.  Some that have left war torn countries, like the situation in Ukraine, Haiti, Sudan...

Lisa Yun  1:58  

What are some examples and cases that you're seeing right now?

Hussein Adams  2:03  

So we have a program called Refugee Social Service program. We are seeing clients from Ukraine, from Haiti, from Venezuela, South and Central America. We complete an intake, and during that intake, we have to determine that they were paroled in, that they have a valid passport from their home country, that they have no criminal background. Then we start seeing where we can assist them with job preparation, applying for their work authorization, the EAD cards. We connect them, so the program is designed to assist these nationals carve and open a way towards some type of self-sufficiency.

Lisa Yun  2:47  

So is it just refugees and asylees who are coming here?

Hussein Adams  2:52  

We have quite a few American citizens that come here regularly. In some cases, we have US citizens that have fiances or family members in other countries. We have international students. We also provide notary services, and we do translation of documents. We have a very successful ESL program. We give citizenship classes for new Americans and newcomers that are coming into the country. We became the first affiliate with International Rescue Committee, who's based in Manhattan. This is an organization that has been involved in humanitarian work for over 100 years.

Lisa Yun  3:36  

One of the vexing questions in the public is, why should we care about immigrants? 

Hussein Adams  3:42  

Well I think newcomers have helped build and establish this country. Historically, if you look at the transcontinental railroad, if you want to go back to the Chinese immigrants that came into the United States as laborers, they worked hard to help build and establish this country. There's a very high demand for newcomers. They want these migrants, and however you frame them, immigrants, newcomers, because of their work ethic. Newcomers are coming into the country, contributing to society, you understand. For example, "deferred action for childhood arrival" that was established by President Obama in 2012, these were minors, were under 18. They lived here, they went to school, they graduated, they found jobs, they started contributing to the society, paying taxes, establishing businesses, and today, many of those recipients are US citizens, and they have families. When new Americans thrive, we all thrive. 

Lisa Yun  4:53  

It strikes me that this American Civic Association is serving everyone in the community. So you're saying you're open to refugees, to asylees, to immigrants, to American citizens, families of American citizens...

Hussein Adams  5:07  

Absolutely.

Shruti Jain  5:09  

I'm in awe of all of the kind of support that ACA provides legally, but also the arts and the Community Enrichment in general. I'm curious to know how you got to taking up this position at the ACA yourself.

Hussein Adams  5:24  

So most of my family hailed from the Caribbean, West Indies. My mom was born in Barbados. She moved to St Kitts. My father was born in Trinidad and Tobago. My mother and my grandmother and my great grandmother were all in Saint Kitts and Nevis. Great grandmother, she was a very comforting humanitarian. She used to cook meals for people that didn't, you know, weren't well off and didn't have food. So she had a stroke. The doctors, the medical team at the time, advised my grandmother to bring her to North America for better health care. My mother and my grandmother came to Jamaica Queens in Long Island where my mother went to high school. She was actually part of the high school basketball team. Taught me basketball as a matter of fact. My grandmother, she found employment. The experience that she had in New York City, coming with a very strong West Indian accent and looking at, you know, as you know, an outsider, a foreigner, and she said it was, it was tough on her. Eventually, my family moved and went to Canada, where she experienced even more racism. Majority European population at the time. She was one of very few African Caribbean students in the school. So from there, she went to Toronto, and that's where I was born. And from there, the family relocated and went back to the Caribbean, because of the experience in Canada. My mother, she started a private school in the Caribbean, and she also homeschooled most of her kids. She taught me and my siblings so much that when we eventually enrolled into public school, we were so far ahead. So from there, went back to school in Canada, graduated from high school, then my undergrad and graduate studies were here in New York,

Lisa Yun  7:42  

And you've gone through these multiple migrations, which is a story that a lot of us don't think about when we think of immigration. We like to think there's origin and destination. More common is the the remigration story.

Hussein Adams  7:57  

So I got married in Toronto, and I came to the United States with my family, and this is right before September 11, 2001.  I came right here to the American Civic Association, and I remember walking into this building. They were filling out applications by hand. They needed a lot of help, severely understaffed. I ended up assisting and volunteering to help whoever needed help, regardless of who they were. That's something that we all stood by, and it's a part of our faith as well, as a Muslim. And when I applied for my adjustment, Adjustment of Status package, I remember being told, you're from Canada, you should get this. No big deal. And six months went on to six years went on to 15 years. And you can imagine, with the first name Hussein, as a Muslim of color, how difficult and challenging that was. After 9/11 I eventually had to hire an attorney in New York. You know, he couldn't understand why this process was, you know, says, yeah, you know, Muslims are being targeted and whatnot, but you know, you have a clean record. You've never been a criminal. This shouldn't be delayed like this. And eventually he took my case to the Supreme Court, and that is how I acquired my US citizenship, 15 years later. You know, anyone who, not only was of a Muslim background, was a part of any Muslim community, there were major delays, especially if they were seeking citizenship. At the time, starting in New York City, NYPD had started surveillance of masjids and Muslims and foreigners and Arabs and those they felt as though they needed to question. It was difficult because, the families,  children, they were born here, this is all they knew. That whole 9/11 experience was so traumatizing for a lot of community members and a lot of children, American born children, you know, didn't know why. Why are we being targeted? Why are we being treated as foreign

Shruti Jain  10:12  

And now you're here, the executive director.

Hussein Adams  10:15  

Everything just came full circle. So I got hired on as an immigration case worker.  I applied to the Department of Justice for an accredited representative which allows you to legally practice immigration law and to give legal advice to clients. So then I completed my master's in law while I was working here full time, and I wanted to be able to feel more comfortable in understanding the law and why certain cases were getting expedited approval and others were being left in the, you know, in the system. 

Shruti Jain  10:51  

Why is it that certain cases get left behind and certain get expedited?

Hussein Adams  10:55  

So there's something called a Plenary Power Doctrine that goes back to the 1800s starting with the Chinese Exclusion Act. It doesn't allow for any type of judicial review. We saw that displayed during the Trump administration, where he established the Muslim ban. So we had a tremendous amount of success with our Ukrainian cases, but with the Afghan parolees, we have very little success. Things have gotten a little better because of challenging the system. I think one of the things that have been very effective has been media, propaganda, reporting stories of, you know, terrorists training camps and Muslim extremists, and eventually, unfortunately, in May of 2015, it led to a former congressional candidate that came from Chattanooga, Tennessee, and he came up here to the Southern Tier and began surveilling the Muslim community, and eventually planned an attack to destroy the Muslim community that I'm a part of. Fortunately, the FBI and the community worked together to foil that plot, and today, he's serving a 20 year sentence in federal prison. It helps me in this position to help people, that I understand your plight, your story, that I've been there, that hopefully will make you feel more comfortable in sharing your complete story and allowing for thorough intake session. We need to know their story, right?

Lisa Yun  12:34  

So you make decisions that will impact people's lives, maybe life and death decisions, and sometimes you probably have to say, no. What are some of the difficult decisions that you've had to make?

Hussein Adams  12:48  

If you've been here for 10 years, 20 years, you can't apply for asylum. Because one of the requirements are that you have to apply within the first year. You know, if someone walks through these doors for help, if we can't file asylum, we look into another form of relief, whether it be temporary protected status, which United States has 17 countries that fall within those guidelines for temporary relief. We're going to do everything in our capacity. You know, we have one immigration attorney on staff. We also have a good partnership with Journey's End refugee services and these type of nonprofit organizations. Like you have to be passionate about the work that you do. I feel as though I can relate to anyone that walks through that door in some shape or form, whether it be language or religion or accent. Coming up as a young man, we had a different accent that was intertwined with West Indian and Caribbean and Canadian and American. So it was like, where are you from?!

Shruti Jain  13:55  

What does it mean to be American?

Hussein Adams  13:56  

I think America provides plentiful opportunity. We grew up in a very poor household, went through my undergrad studies and was able to get assistance. You know, through New York State, you work hard and you contribute to the society and the economy, and you pay taxes, and you do all these things. The story of a newcomer can be found in two words. I mentioned resiliency, but courage. There's so many steps that you have to take, and you have to have courage to get to and achieve your goals. When I started my master's in law, some people told me, you know, you're crazy. How are you going to do that? I got accepted to a University in Minnesota that had a good law program. I didn't know how I was flying out to Minnesota. It was partially online, and I would have to fly in each semester, but then covid hit, and when covid hit, the entire program went online. I would leave the office at four o'clock in the afternoon. And I would drive home. I would open my laptop and get on to classes, you know, homework assignments. Back at work in the morning. So whatever you want to achieve, you just have to have that, that mindset, that determination, the willingness to to go and get it, regardless of your age, regardless of where you come from, regardless of the barriers that you face, if you're determined that you really want it you can do it.

Lisa Yun  15:27  

So I'm wondering, as an immigrant and as a parent, your kids, what's the advice?

Hussein Adams  15:34  

They're privileged. They're definitely privileged. I mean, that was one of actually the motivating factors in me, even going back to school, regardless of how old you are, what your situation is, or how difficult or challenging it is, you can do it if you set your mind to it. 

Shruti Jain  16:08  

Thank you for listening to "Immigrants Wake America." This podcast is supported by Humanities New York, Binghamton University, the Tenement Museum, and the American Civic Association.

Mamen Rodriguez  16:20  

For more details on our supporters, please see our show notes and our website, immigrantswakeamerica.com. You can also email us at immigrantsquakeamerica@gmail.com. We would love to hear from you. See you in the next episode.

Shruti 0:07

Welcome to Immigrants Wake America Season 2, Hidden Heroes in a Small Town. Come with us behind the scenes to talk with caseworkers and staff who assist refugees and immigrants in upstate New York. I am Shruti. 

Lisa 0:22

Hi. I'm Lisa. Our guest today is Laila Hernandez, Deputy Director of the American Civic Association in Binghamton, New York. Laila shares her journey as a remarkable woman wearing many hats, as an immigration caseworker accredited by the Department of Justice, as the chief mentor for her busy staff, as an educator for student interns, and as a mother homeschooling her children, and much more. 

Laila 1:01

There's one family who came, and they were placed in an environment that wasn't the best.

It was bug-infested. It was mice-infected, rodent, I guess, infected, you can say. And so they came here as refugees. They had to flee their country. And so we enrolled, the family in our refugee support services program, but we were able to help them move, into a much cleaner environment, in more permanent housing. I think that's one of the most memorable stories, I think of immediately off the top of my head.

You know, a lot of people come to us not really knowing the scope of the work that we do, but they hear immigration, and they hear refugee, and they think this is the place. So I feel like we, you know, we feel like we have to uphold that. 

Lisa 2:04

Where are the refugees and asylees coming from? You have so much passion for your job. And so we're hearing that you're DOJ accredited.

Yeah. You're deputy director. At the same time, you're wearing 10 different hats. So can you give us more of a picture of where refugees are coming from to this town?

Laila 2:32

Absolutely!

So we've had several families from Syria, Afghanistan, I wanna say the Ivory Coast, in Africa, Congo, and we just received a family from Colombia. They're Afro-Colombians, but the biggest population is from the Middle East countries. And there is a fairly large, Arabic-speaking community, here in in in this area. That's where they come from. And, you know, it's interesting thinking about the first client family that we received and then the leaps and bounds that we've taken from the other families after them and learning more about their culture and, you know, what they eat.

And when it comes to literally shopping for like, we have to do everything for them so that when they arrive here, even down to the hot meal, like, we have to find a meal as close to their culture as possible here, which luckily, has been curries- seems to be like a common dish that they all share even though they're from different countries. So we found this one restaurant, Mediterranean Halal House on Court Street, that really just became where the refugees were saying, “this was really good, Laila”. So we would just be okay. Well, you know, this will be the spot for us. Halal Bites is another one.

And I think for me, and I can speak for all of us here at the ACA, it's like, what would I want for myself? Even when we go shopping for the bed sheets and the covers, I have to be extra, extra making sure that things match. Like, I really instead of putting things just mismatched, it just has to be mismatched. Right? Like, so I want them to know and feel that we receive them in the best manner as possible.

And so I hug my clients. I hug them because sometimes that's all they need to know that someone sincerely cares about them. 

Shruti 4:33

You've said a few times that your path was complicated. It was not just one journey. There were multiple journeys like this, right? Could you talk a little bit about how you came to become the deputy director here at the ACA? 

Laila 4:57Sure. Absolutely. So when I got my master's, I know there was one question that I was in my policy analysis class, and it was towards the end of you know, I was graduating my last semester, and the policy class, the professor, it was was a very interesting class. I kinda stayed away from politics. I thought it was very complex. But once I learned how to get, you know, how to make change, right, policy change, right, how to get it to the table, the process, and just the power and the knowledge to be able to do this. So I saw it differently after I took the class, but in the end, he asked you know, he said, what have you learned? What worries you? And I told him that I am where I never thought I would be. I have this advanced degree. I will have this, like, degree, but I will still be a Latina. I will still be a person of color and I will still face discrimination. And I said, it hovers over me. It's a it's a concern. It's a worry. Like, will, with all that I have to get maybe I didn't have a lot of experience I could put on paper, but I knew I had talent and skills. But I know that wearing a hijab, you know, is is a is a challenge. Being a person of color is a challenge. And knowing that even if I was qualified, that I would be disqualified…

Laila 6:17 

After I graduated, I had little jobs here and there. I had this amazing internship that I was able to leverage. It was administrative work. So, again, a path that I had no idea would really help me.

So I graduated. I did that internship, and then I worked at the pharmacy, in Lourdes. And then I found this job working for Journeys and Refugee Services as legal assistant. All I saw was refugees, and I said, oh, that's for me! I wanna help!

Like, I wanna do this work. And so they came here to the American Civic because they opened up a satellite office here, and they said we are “we are delighted to, you know, interview you”. So at the interview, the interviewer, she says, “so tell me about yourself, Laila”. So I told her about myself, and she literally leaned back like this, and she said, “I see you leading cities. You're overqualified, but we want you.”

So they hired me. So when the clients came in for their appointments, I asked the the attorneys, can I do the intakes? Can I be the one to speak to them? And, oh my god, that's really when I started to actually fall in love with immigration. I was there for about 2 years. Very proud of what I left behind. So I needed a little bit more money, you know, working in a nonprofit. You know? I had children. I had to take care of them, and I wanted to do more. I wasn't doing enough. Like, I wanted to be a DOJ. The opportunity wasn't there for me, and I wanted to be more impactful on communities, students, people, anybody. Right? So I applied for a position at Binghamton University and in the Fleischmann Center. And so I transitioned there, for about a year, and then, I guess, someone heard me motivating a student and telling her, you got this. You just you know, talking to her, you know, about her interview. You know? And I was told by my supervisor, that's not your role. It's not your role. So I said, well, I'm gonna go where it is my role, and I left. 

And I went to Hartwick. I applied for a job there because it was an academic probation specialist. I was proud to tell them that my first two semesters, I was on academic probation. But I climbed very high after that, and I'm very proud of it.

Kent, the board the president of the board reached out to me and said, Laila, we have a position, Deputy Director, and we wanna know if you'll take it. And I said, I will gladly take it. 

When they offered me the position, I took it. I was nervous because I didn't know what it what it is to be a deputy director. Right? But very quickly, I found that it was the position that I always wanted because I knew my talent and my skill, and I was able to use all of it in this one position. Soon after, maybe a few months in, I said, wow. Like, I'm really, I am who I am. I'm Layla. And Layla is who I've always wanted to be because I always knew who Laila was. I would say that I am just so grateful, you know, to God that he put me where I am my best. Right? Where am I best? And being in all of my experiences, I pulled from every single one of them being a mother, you know, multitasking. I wouldn't be able to multitask. That's that's my foremost. And then us taking care of the people who take care of the people. So it's twofold right on the outside and inside internally externally. And just being a mother, you know, it really helped me to, I mean, multitask.

Like I shared with Lisa and Shruti before that people used to call me ahead because I was so motherly like. And and even to this day, like, I have, you know, my blazer. I you know, I'm in this position, you know, of of being a change agent. But when I go home, I'm a completely different person. I love to cook. I love to bake. You know, I love interior design. I love making things pretty. I love seeing things that are pretty. I take pride in my culture. I take pride in my children and my home. So I'm very domestic. 

Lisa 10:51 

You know, Leila, you have such an expansive view of community. Community is everything. Yes. It is. And, you know, you're acknowledging all those who helped you on your journey and how now your dream is to help others. I really admire that so much because that's what keeps our community running and thriving. And, so I have a question that goes back to when we talk about community. You mentioned very briefly something about your parents and the fact that your family, they were a family of immigrants and you did mention something about discrimination. So I'm wondering if you can share with us, you know, where did your family come from, and what was their experience like when they?

Laila 11:47

My parents came from Puerto Rico. And at the time, I would say people of color were trained to be manufacturers and laborers. My father, he didn't, like, he didn't have, you know, high school diploma. He didn't you know, he he was on the streets, I guess, so to say. He was, you know, out there and, you know, my mom wasn't. She grew up differently a little bit. But he came in as an immigrant, not speaking English, his parents, you know, and again in a very you know, a time where the opportunity to, have higher wages, of jobs just wasn't for them, and they really didn't know how to navigate it because of the language barrier. My dad, he was very hardworking. Pre I would say we just pretty much, grew up, you know, poor. We grew up poor. So even though I may not be an immigrant, you know, I still felt that, you know, like the the when there's an earthquake and there's that ripple effect, I felt that.

 You know, I'm actually there's 8 of us, and I'm the only college graduate. When I was going to school, you know, he would tell me that he was proud of me, and I used to think like, what are you what are you saying? Like, you didn't go to college. You didn't, you know, go to school.

He was so proud of me because I was able to go to college, and I knew how to get there. And I found my way, and he didn't he wasn't able to do that, but to have a child, you know, that can do that because now I'm able to help my parents. They live with me. I happily take care of my parents to give back to them, you know. Maybe there wasn't a lot to give materially materialistically, but a lot of my core values come from my father. He worked very hard but he came home and he made sure that he spent time with us. He made sure he taught us how to be good people. He taught us our religion, and it was important to him. So when I think about my dad, I think about how he would come home from work, and he would put on his, you know, his Muslim attire. He would sit down, and he would talk to us about manners and God and being thankful and grateful and kind. And my mom, she's in the kitchen and, you know, she's cooking, and we'll all come together. And we would sit down and we eat together. You know, that's my memory, you know, of of my dad. And, again, we didn't have a lot. It was not that I aspire to be rich. Right? But I know that there was much more out there that I could have, you know, and it didn't have to be that way. And we didn't have to live that way. 

An experience I had, I was in Walmart, and I was checking out. And I had these trash cans, and I'm you know, there's a whole bunch of checkout self checkout. And so I turned around to leave, and the cat the the guy asked me, excuse me, ma'am. Did you pay for that? And I said, excuse me, sir.

Did you ask me that because I'm black? And he was so taken back that I have faced him with being targeted because I was targeted. I said, all these people around here, and you asked me did I pay for my trash cans? Yes. I did.

I have no reason not to not to pay for my trash can. So I was very upset because I was targeted. So to this very day, that still exists. And even though I am where I am by the grace of god, I still it doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't go anywhere.

So I try to arm as many people as I can with being strong, being resilient, especially my children. 

Shruti 15:47

Thank you for listening to Immigrants Wake America. This podcast is supported by Humanities New York, Binghamton University, the Tenement Museum, and the American Civic Association. Mamen 16:00

For more details on our supporters, please see our show notes and our website, immigrantswakeamerica.com.

You can also email us at immigrantswakeamerica@gmail.com. We would love to hear from you. See you in the next episode!

Shruti Jain  0:00  

Welcome to immigrants. Wake America Season Two. Hidden heroes in a small town come with us behind the scenes to talk with caseworkers and staff who assist refugees and immigrants in upstate New York. I am Shruti and

Mamen Rodriguez  0:13  

I am Mamen. We are your hosts for this episode. Our guest today is Edward Marte. Edward was a caseworker at the ACA until 2023 where he worked helping immigrants and refugees settle in Broome County. Edward, an immigrant himself, shares with us the difficulties he encountered as a young person in a new country, and the ways in which he tirelessly gives back to the community, both in the US and in the Dominican Republic. 

Welcome Edward. Thank you very happy to have you here today. You were, until recently, working for the ACA, and now you're also doing your masters at Binghamton University. So congratulations on that. We want to hear about your journey of migration, and how was it coming to Binghamton. Was it easy for you to find a community, to find someone to,you know, be with?

Edward Marte  1:11  

I um came from the Dominican Republic in 2014 to Binghamton. I came without my parents. Honestly,  my father just sent me here. He said, Just go to Binghamton because my stepmother's sister lives here. He lives in the Dominican Republic. We went to Puerto Rico first. And he actually said, because he didn't want to come to the United States, he's never been to the United States. He is a const... He worked construction in the Dominican Republics, and I'm the only child, so he he didn't want to come here, and there was no reason for him to come. So he just said, "go there for a better life", basically. And one of my biggest challenge was going to high school, because when I went to high school, they told me, because I didn't know English, that I had to take the GED something that was... that it really impacted my life, because in the Dominican Republic, I was high honor student, and for them to tell me, because I didn't know English, that I had to take the GED, that really impacted me in a lot of ways. But I was, I was I went to the American civic full year, and I learned English, and I will I make friends. I also went to the Boys and Girls Club of Binghamton that I called out my second house, because that really helped me to be around years and actually practice my English and be around all the people and a lot of the stuff that used to work there at that time. They also speak Spanish, so they used to translate for me all the time. I used to participate in a lot of the program that they used to have. So that was really one of the good things that happened to me in Binghamton.

Shruti Jain  1:12  

That's amazing.

Edward Marte  1:18  

Thank you. 

Shruti Jain  1:26  

When you when you were taking these classes there, did you ever think that you'd end up working with the very same people?

Edward Marte  2:35  

I honestly never thought about any, you know, I... when I went to high school, I took this leadership training in Syracuse. It's called hispanic Youth leadership, and they... that's when I learned how to be a leader, even though, um, I was a leader. But, you know, there's something that I wanted that as you have to learn and stuff and invest on, so that come... those training taught me how to be a better person and how to be a leader in my community. And that's why I went to school for human development and like working with people and helping others. So that's one of the reasons.

Shruti Jain  3:39  

do you go back to the Dominican Republic now for your summer break or something like that?

Edward Marte  3:44  

 I been this year, I went there in three times. I usually go at least once or twice a year. Um, this year I took 150 backpack to the children, and my goal is to, every year increase that and be able to help all the people back and back there. I also took more school supplies when I first went there in June for the Children's. And I also took, like I said, a 150 back packs, notebook, color pencils, glue, and all that stuff for the children, for a community foundation. So my goal is to go back at least once or twice a year, and do at least one community activity with it 

Shruti Jain  4:26  

It's incredible. 

Edward Marte  4:27  

Thank you.

Speaker 1  4:28  

So when Mame and I spoke to you earlier, and even now, you said that you had to come here, and dad just sent you here, you have one, one distant relative that you know here and dropped you here, and you had to fend for yourself figuring out a life here. Do all of these academic hurdles? Jump through all of those hoops in the meantime, you managed to help people here by becoming a part of the ACA being a caseworker yourself. You also managed to help people back in the Dominican republic while you were doing all of this. And I just think that's incredible.

Edward Marte  5:03  

Thank you. Yeah, when I went to SUNY Broome, I used to have three jobs, because since my parents didn't live here, I was the only one that  like,  I had to support myself, but I also had to support some of my family members, like my mother and my grandparents and stuff like that. So I used to do work study on campus. I used to work at the Boys and Girls Club, because after a year of being in there, they saw my leadership skill, and they hired me. I worked there for a few years, I think, five years, and then I also worked at McDonalds which I was there for nine years, and while I was going to SUNY Broome and I transfer here to Binghamton university, and that's when I left the Boys in Girls. Club, and I only work at McDonald's because it was also helping me pay for school.

Speaker 2  5:49  

How did you balance working so much and also doing so well academically and advancing your academic life? 

Speaker 1  5:56  

Honestly, Idon't give up so easily, you know, some of my experiences here also told me a lot, you know, to not give up, because. Well, my first day when I came to do the orientation, there was a language barrier, because even though I speak English, sometimes I can't.  There's, you know, sometimes I don't understand everything. Or, like, you know, there's a balance challenge there. And the first day, I was like, I'm leaving. There's no way I can do this.  So, you know, just making sure that I knew that I wanted to do it for  myself, but also to help my family.

Shruti Jain  6:32  

What? What did your job entail? Mamen and I were thinking, we could ask you.

Edward Marte  6:37  

At the ACA?

Shruti Jain  6:38  

Yeah!

Edward Marte  6:38  

I used to do a little about everything. When I first started, I was mostly a case worker to work with fill out application. But I don't like to be sitting down like too long, like filling out applications. So they offer me to be the outreach coordinator, like, you know, getting the community together, passing out information. And I used to do a lot.

Would you also like to tell our audience about the other projects you are a part of, such as the Hispanic youth leadership institute and some other things?

yes, like I mentioned before, I was part of the Hispanic  youth leadership is was created by Angel del Toro, and his idea was to enter his community and to students from high school so they can learn about their assembly, how to pass the bill, how to be a leader in their community, how to help others and Actually the after the student completed. We completed training. We go to Albany, and we learned how to pass the bill. My... I was representing Binghamton High School in Syracuse, but there was whole school, this student that came from New York City, and we all met in Albany, and I met this young lady just from the Dominican Republic. And every year we do a trip to a different country where we go there. And we experienced not only the tourist area, but we also found an organization there. Like this year we went to Costa Rica, and we found our one organization that worked with HIV. Last year we went to Colombia, and we also went to an organization that focused on domestic violence and helping people down. And every year we tried to go to a different country. And not so help them, that particular organization, but also help us in other like the day before we finished the conference, we take a moment and we talk about everything we want to even ask everything that we've been overwhelming with and stuff like that. You know, hearing some of the stories actually help to know that you're not the only one that may be going through all of this stuff. 

Mamen Rodriguez  9:04  

This episode was recorded live with the Binghamton University undergraduate class. Here are some of the questions the students had.

Drew  9:15  

My name is Drew. It's been lovely hearing what you have to say and my question a little nitpicky, but you say your mom's living with you.

How's that been?

Edward Marte  9:27  

Honestly, it was really challenging. I grew up with my mom, and you know, we didn't live together for almost eight years, and we both have a different personality. We, we kind of have the same personality in some ways. And, you know, we, she like, she like to control. And, you know, another person, the type of person that like, like, doing, controlling. And the first, when she first came, it was, honestly, was really hard, you know. So every day I had to be a better person, you know, and just make a happy. Sometimes she's not happy because, you know, um, I like to different living. I think because of my education, I just, but it was definitely really hard to be honest, you know, and as something that I'm still learning and processing.

Madeline  10:25  

Hi, my name is Madeline, and all of us in the room right now, except Professor Yoon, are current students at Binghamton University. So what is one thing that you wish students who are from New York or from the US knew about life as a student and an immigrant?

Edward Marte  10:46  

I want to say it's hard to be and, you know, especially finding yourself and around all the people. So I think something that we also know is how to be how to care for each other. Have to have patience and actually get to know your classmate. These cultures a little bit hard. Sometimes have just caring for each other and getting to know the people around you, because would you never know what people is going through and stuff like that. So

Pamela  11:25  

hi, my name is Pamela, and I just had a question about, like your culture and how you brought it back with you to America at such a young age. Also, I can't imagine coming to a new country by myself at such a young age, and how you brought your culture back with you.

Edward Marte  11:42  

I want to say, by bringing like, happiness, um, you know, making sure that, because then the Dominican Republic, if you go there, you're going to see how people are friendly, like, um, sometimes that your neighbors, you share food with your neighbors, you know? Um, sometimes, even if you cook, your neighbor always bring your food. And when somebody died, you see a whole the whole community together. You see everybody in if you don't have something like, If you don't have sugar or salt, you're missing something to cook, you can go to your neighbor and say, Neighbor, can you give me some sugar? Can, you know, can you let me borrow some something um, so I want to say by, you know, bringing my happiness and helping other people, and also, um, celebrating del Dominican Independence Day, which is in February.

Lisa Yun  12:41  

Hi, Edward. This is Lisa. I'm so so moved by your story, and it makes me think how you have given back so much to other people. So my question is about your work at the ACA, because I know you put your heart and soul into it. Are there times when there weren't solutions? Are there times when there were challenges that couldn't be overcome because your story is one in which you didn't give up and you really have made an amazing path for yourself. But I'm just wondering, are there other stories that you witnessed at the ACA?

Edward Marte  13:31  

 One of the ones that I always going to remember was when, especially everybody know that it's been, a lot of people been coming to the US, especially this year. I remember at the beginning of the year, in the middle of the winter, one of the mothers, she's from Cuba, and she came to the ACA with her daughter, and we was walking to DSS, and I saw her daughter walking with Santos and with no jacket, and that broke my heart. And I went back to the ACA, and I told Layla Hernandez, the departed director of the American civic to do something about it. And we she actually went to the store, and I called some of my friends from Binghamton, and we were able to buy her some booze and jacket for the winter. That's one of the, you know, biggest one that I always going to remember, because we sometimes we have everything, and we're not grateful. But looking at a little baby, I think she was, I think she's two. She was two at the moment. So by you know, looking at her walking in the middle of the winter, we're not basically with sandals. That definitely broke my heart.

Mamen Rodriguez  14:52  

If there are no more questions, thank you so much for telling us your story. I want to say that you have a great. Look in life, and many of us could learn from you and like the way you look at life, in the way that you're so happy and really happiness around you, but thank you so much for sharing with us.

Edward Marte  15:13  

 Yeah

Mamen Rodriguez  15:13  

It was really an honor to be able to talk to you, and you make talking to us and the group so easy you make you make conversations easy, you make people feel comfortable, and that shows in your work. And I hope that the larger audience of the podcast also gets to know you the way we have you.

Drew  15:39  

Music.

Shruti Jain  15:54  

Thank you for listening to immigrants wake America. This podcast is supported by humanities New York Binghamton University, the Tenement Museum and the American Civic Association.

Mamen Rodriguez  16:06  

For more details on our supporters, please see our show notes and our website, immigrantswakeamerica.com you can also email us at immigrantswakeamerica@gmail.com we would love to hear from you, see you in the next episode you.

Le Li  0:00  

Welcome to Immigrants Wake America Season Two: Hidden Heroes in a Small Town. Come with us behind the scenes to talk with caseworkers and staff who assist the refugees and immigrants in upstate New York. I am Le.

Shruti Jain  0:22  

And I'm Shruti. We are your hosts for this episode. Our guest today is Aye Aye Mar.  Aye Ayewas an immigration caseworker at the ACA through 2024 in this episode, Aye Aye shares with us many aspects of her complex journey of migration from a refugee camp in Thailand to the US. She also talks about her work helping immigrants and refugees at the American Civic Association.

Aye Aye Mar  0:57  

So my family and I are from Myanmar, which is, it's a country used to be called Burma, but it is in Southeast Asia, and it is next to India and its border China. So I have both of my parents here in the United States, along with my three younger siblings. My family and I came to the United States in 2008, but I was like around 12 years old before coming to the U.S. My family and I were in refugee camp in Thailand for about three years or so. And I think I was lucky, because a lot of people that I knew were there for like, a long time, they would just be there as single, and then every 10 years, or like, they got married, they had kids there in refugee camp. I would say that refugee camp was basically, like, right in the jungle. So, like, they made this one big space with a lot of bamboo houses right next to each other, and it's overcrowded. There's a lot of people, a lot of kids. So we lived in this like, small house that made out of like bamboo, plastic sheets and wood. So when you walk around the house like you clearly hear every footsteps. Sometimes I will fall under the floor because the house wasn't strong enough to hold together like sometimes like the rain would leak through the roof when it was a raining season, and the houses were very close to each other, like my neighbors, and we were, like, right next to each other. We did not have any electricity, so I remember my dad has this generator. You know, he basically gave out the electricity to our neighbors and our own house. We had this movie night for like, a whole blocks, these kids from other blocks, or like these kids from our neighbors, or even, like adults, they would just come and watch on the street. You were just sitting on the street. We would all be just enjoying the movie. Sometimes, like we use candles that will be provided it by the UNHCR. So the UNHCR is basically, it's the United Nations High Commission for refugees. So they provided us with, like, some necessary things, such as, like, a beans, rice, oil, food and other like, basic items. And I also went to school in refugee camp. The school, it was actually hard because they don't have like a specific like, they don't have like a teachers that could teach us, like a specialty in that area, because, like, you know, in refugee camp, you don't have access to really good education, but we just try to make it as best as possible. So from my house to the school is about 40 minutes walk. I would just walk there every morning. And also, like, we don't have enough food back in refugee camp, we have to basically, like, eat a small portion. We have no meats. We eat, like, a lot of like vegetables and plants and whatever the U - the UNHCR provided us. Now I look back, I'm like, you know, I really do appreciate what I had, you know. At least I have, like, roof over my head and food to eat. So I'm very appreciative, like, what I what I went through. The main big thing is just like waiting,  there was, like, a really big struggle, because there are, like, a lot of diseases, like, you know, in refugee camp. And I remember, like my teacher, he has a daughter, and she got yellow fever and she died. That was so sad. And I remember I wanted to go to her funeral, but my parents wouldn't let me go because they said if it's contagious, and you know they want, they don't want me to, like, get in touch with a disease, and we have no health care.  If something, something's wrong, then you can just die there, and you're not gonna make it here.

Aye Aye Mar  5:01  

I remember my my family, we have to go through a lot of interviews. One of the US representative, they will interview us. We had to live in this big hall. We don't have our own room in this big hall with like, a lot of people, right next to each other. We will sleep right next to each other. Now also, we shower right next to each other after the interview. Once, like, everything's approved, we will know, like the date to leave the refugee camp. I still remember this organization is called IOM. I think it's International Organizations for Migration. They actually help us with booking the flight tickets and accommodations to come here to the United States. We basically paid them back when we're like here in the United States. So we have to pay them back monthly. We try to do monthly, because we couldn't afford to pay back the whole amount. We never been on airplane. So we were so confused. We didn't know where to go. The flight attendants that, whoever works at the airport, they would direct us to go. We're like, really, really appreciate that. You know, we were so happy, and we were so thrilled. And then I think we were in the west side, first, probably California or somewhere, and then west side to here, New York. And then in Albany, we will be in this little stay-overnight, in this little inn. So, such a long journey that's made me who I am now.

Aye Aye Mar  6:26  

It was a struggle when I first came to the US, mainly because of the language barrier. I did not know any English. I did not have any friends, so I started as a seventh grade, like, I would just sit there and I will fall asleep every class, because I had no idea what the teacher was talking or, like, what what I'm learning. I did not learn anything. Yeah, I would just go home. I was just being so sad. You know, what am I gonna learn, how to speak this and speak English, and I did not have any friends, so like, I don't have anyone to talk to or play with. And I remember, like, I got all F, all my classes, and on the report card, poor cards! But now I realize, you know, like, you fail all the classes, basically. But, um, they also gave us the ESL classes. I had to take ESL classes for the whole time. Basically, I remember I was trying to research these tutor sessions at, I found this place called Boys and Girls Club. I know like, I wanted to do well in classes. So I talked to my dad about it. He was very, you know, supportive of my education. He's, he thinks education is number one. He was like, okay, you know, let's go and talk to Boys and Girls Club. We went there and talked to one of the representative, and we found out that it was too expensive, you know, it was too expensive. So he couldn't afford it. My dad works as, like, a housekeeping, for, like, the Holiday Inn, you know, at the hotel, you know, because he does not know English. So I was like, you know, it's okay, you know, don't worry about it. As a father, you know, he wants me to do better, and he wants to support me. He wants to provide for me. But I know in his eyes, like he was like, so sad. I remember, like, because he couldn't pay for me. So I was like, you know, don't worry about it. I'll do better, you know. So I basically ended up going to my teachers, and you know, like, try to try to do as best as I can when my English got better. I help my parents' translation, interpretation, everything like that. I pushed myself to that goal, like, I need to get 90 above in all my classes, and I want to be in National Honor Society. I go to my teachers all the time. I ask them what to do, and I basically, when I got home, all I do is just like, do my schoolwork for hours and hours. My grades got better for sure. I got into National Honor Society, and that was one of the proudest moment of my life. So I had a lot of responsibilities since I was young, and even, like still now, like I have, I still have a responsibility. And I had to look out for my younger siblings. I had to take care of my parents. So like back in refugee camp, I was young back then, so I had to take care of my younger siblings with feeding them, bathing them, carry them around my back, everywhere I go, and change their diapers as well. So I was their second mother. Both of my parents were very busy trying to go to their job and try to support the family, so and also, I teach my sibling as well, like I help them with their homeworks. So I play a very big role, even when we came to United States, I helped my younger siblings with their homework because no one knows how to speak English.  So I had, I have to make sure that they're doing well in school. For both of my parents, they mainly, I help them with like interpretations and translation, documents, and anything that they they don't understand. So they, they depend on me so much. And sometimes it's like, it's like, a big weight on my shoulder. But I do feel appreciated. It helps me grow into strong person, and then I don't give up, and now we're all growing up.

Aye Aye Mar  10:39  

So I'm always passionate about helping refugees and immigrants. I try to look for places that I could work that relates to this. So like when I was in Albany with my family, I used to work at the USCRI I don't know you heard of it, but USCRI is a US committee for refugees and immigrants. It was a nonprofit, just like ACA and I was a caseworker there. I really liked it, and also related to me in so many ways. I really wanted to help these people to get the resources that they need, and maybe if I could even interpret for them, little things like that, that would be very helpful, and it would change their life. That's why I want to work for these type of organizations and also wanted to pursue my master's degree when I was in Albany, and I applied to Binghamton University. Finally, I got into the program. So I want to focus on finishing my master and trying to go for my PhD as well. I was like, I need a place to work as well. So I try to reach out to ACA, and I told them my experiences. So that's how I got the position here at the ACA. I do a lot. Mainly, I helped fill out different applications, like citizenship application, green card renewal, applying for green card petition for alien relative. But as for applying for asylum, I had to talk to different immigration caseworkers, and I also had to talk to immigration lawyers and see what laws and regulations are related to these type of whatever issues the people might have. So some people might come in and they want to seek asylum, and not any anybody can apply for that status. So we have to make sure that they're on the good terms. So I have to talk to other immigration attorneys and make sure that they're okay. And I was very happy that I got to help this lady, you know, she had a problem with her, her husband, and, and especially, she cannot speak English at all. And you know, she was in this domestic violence situation. She does not know where to go and what to do. So she was open up to me about it, and I was like, we need to find where you can go. So I refer her to immigration law office, where they could provide you with the process and what she needs to do. So she got in touch with that law, and also I refer her to this shelter where, like, she could stay there temporarily. She was very, very thankful, because she was to the point where, you know, it's life or death situation. She was like, I don't know anyone, and I don't know how to speak English, and I don't know where to go, but you helped me out with this. That thing is just all settled, and she's happy now. She's learning English, she's going to classes. So that's one of the happiest moment of working at the ACA that I get to help these people. I have a lot of cases. It's sometimes, it's become hectic. They want to get their application in, and they want to bring their spouse over as quick as possible. And sometimes, like, I cannot do anything about it. It's up to the USCIS. Sometimes it takes forever for them to process. And so I always had to, like, remind them you just got to be patient. And you know, some people are just very demanding sometimes, and they will just come in. And, you know, I try to get in as much as I can the same time. You know, you, you cannot prioritize everyone, and I try not to miss any deadlines. It's always busy. And sometimes, like, people come in, they don't even have an appointment, but they need help with filling out an application. I have to help them, and I have to go back to there so I didn't have enough time throughout my day, whoever comes in the door. I try to help them. I don't just let them walk away, because I know how that feels like. Like I said earlier, working hard and trying to push myself and becoming a DOJ. It was a lot of trainings, and I learned from other caseworkers too. I learned a lot in that area and with like helping them and it changed their life, even little things changed their life.

Shruti Jain  15:08  

Thank you for listening to immigrants wake America. This podcast is supported by Humanities New York,  Binghamton University, the Tenement Museum,  and the American Civic Association.

Le Li  15:19  

 For more details on our supporters, please see our show notes and our website, immigrantswakeamerica.com. You can also email us at immigrantswakeamerica@gmail.com. We would love to hear from you. See you in the next episode.

Lisa Yun  0:18  

So Goretti, welcome to the podcast.

Goretti Mugambwa  0:21  

Thank you, Lisa, thank you for inviting me.

Lisa Yun  0:24  

I really admire the important work that you all do here at the Civic Association, and especially you. You've been doing this work for many, many years.

Goretti Mugambwa  0:34  

Yeah, I've been doing this work for 10 years now, almost 11.

Lisa Yun  0:38  

What are some of the incoming cases?

Goretti Mugambwa  0:42  

There was problems in Afghanistan. We tried to help the churches that were resettling them, because the churches could do it directly. So currently we have some, there are some families from Afghanistan coming through the churches who sponsored them, that we are being part of. So my early work with refugees, they are from Iran, Iraq, some from Russia, actually. I mean, some of the Ukrainian refugees came from Russia, some from Burmese...

Lisa Yun  1:09  

And I know many people come to see the services here, it's a lifeline.

Goretti Mugambwa  1:15  

So the first thing they do is to try and learn English. So immediately they come, we have to register them in English classes, which are offered here at American Civic Association. And of course, it's a struggle. There's a struggle in the family who goes to, to, to the classes, because it's husband, wife, and children, of course, are registered to go to school, and then you know, it's up to the husband and wife to decide who comes classes. But some of the families, through their culture, they didn't want their wives to come to classes at all. They have to be accompanied by a male or they, you know, they just don't allow them to come to classes. So it was a struggle. Some of the women really, really are very good. They know they, they learn so fast. Some of them would come with, you know, both husband and wife, especially when they have kids, all of them are going school. But if they have little kids, of course, the the whole load comes to the woman to stay in home and take care of the children. One family in particular, I remember very well, because the woman was really bright, she was a teacher in her country, and I offered. I said, okay, I will drive you in the evening. I'll come here. I'll sit and wait for her until she finishes classes, and I bring her back home. The husband said, no, she can't.  Then another one said, Well, if she goes to class, my son has to be there with her. And of course, the son is a young teenage man. So she decided, said, "you know, I'm not, don't worry, my husband doesn't want me to do it." So she never came to classes.

Lisa Yun  2:51  

There are a lot of challenges for them and also for you in your assisting. 

Goretti Mugambwa  2:57  

Yes. The other challenge we faced, like most of the families, actually. And I mean, the women had reached a point where maybe they don't want more children. And they said, you know, I've had enough. And they see the struggles here. I mean, when they come to America, the culture is quite different, because at home, they have at their home, they have support children, have someone you know, a relative will come and take care of the children for her to do other things. But here they are just on their own, you know. They, they just in the house there with the children and the husband, the husband, you know. So some of them don't want to have more children, but the husband will not lift a hand. They want more and more children. So one lady in particular, she told me that she doesn't want to have another child "If I have another child, I'm going to die." So I said, okay. And so we were translating through the phone, you know, I say this and that and then she understands what I'm talking about. And she was really serious. She didn't want more children. So I took out family planning, and I said, so if they give you contraceptives, how are you going to take them? How are you going...?"  "Don't worry, I'm going to hide some of them, and you can keep some of them here for me, I'll come for them." So that's how we did it. So when these families arrive, first of all, we are given the arrival dates. These things come from Washington, the central office in Washington. First of all, we accept resettling these families in the community. So then they send us all the bios, their everything. Then we have to look for housing for them. The money the government gives is very little. If you use it, if you use it all, the family won't have anything. So we go in the community, find some kind, kind people who offers furniture, who offers things, free things, or looking for free things. And then I have to go buy bed sheets, buy towels, buy supplies, you know. I used to go to the airport myself, sometimes alone, sometimes with a colleague. But whatever time the plane comes, I have to be at the airport to meet them. So if they have an anchor here family that is helping them, I go with that family member. The language, you know, no one speaks English, few words here and there. But so we go to the airport. We pick the family. I remember picking the family at around 2am, and it was snowing. So they come here. You take them and you take their papers, and then you drive them to the family or to the house where they are going. You sit down with them to make sure they have eaten. So we sit down, we eat the meal. We leave them there the following day, we have to bring them back to American Civic to do registration, to, to register school children in school, you know, all that work.

Lisa Yun  5:53  

I imagine your past also informs your decision to go into this kind of work.

Goretti Mugambwa  5:58  

So, you know, when I came, I came through different countries. When I started, I was alone, I didn't have responsibilities, but I just wanted to run away from my country. I hated my country. I love my people. I love the family members. I love the, you know, the culture. I love everything about my country, but I don't like my country because of what politicians have done to this country for for a long, long time. The reason I left was, my brother-in-law was shot and killed in front of my sister, and they had three children. My brother-in-law was a dentist, a doctor. And he had had a meeting with the government people, and they were talking about protecting doctors. Doctors were being killed in my country at that time. So he told them, said, "How can you protect doctors when you don't protect the people we want to treat? I think the first obligation for you people is to protect the people." They didn't like that, so the informants in the meeting went and told the bosses, and that night, they came to his house, dismantled his car, the phone was they took off the wires. Entered the house, and shot him in the hip, the joint where he couldn't stop bleeding, even if they tried to stop bleeding. So my niece was about eight or six, eight. So she was trying to count how many peoplewe were in the house. And they shot her too. They shot her in the leg, and they left. So my sister was crying and crying, and of course, try to use the phone. They couldn't use the phones, work and reach somewhere, get someone to help, call a brother, brother who was far away to come and take them to hospital. Actually, he died at the gate of the hospital where he worked. And I was so, so, so, and, you know... So I told my sister, I'm leaving. I said, you know I'm going. I don't know where I'm going, but I don't want to live here anymore. So I left Uganda. I went to Kenya. Stayed there suffering. Kenya was not an easy country to live in,  too, though it was my next door neighbor. Then from there I left. I went to Nigeria. Worked there at the university as a secretary, and meanwhile, you work on contracts, the contract finishes, they don't want to renew it. I don't want to go to Uganda, you know, where do I go next? And during that time, I had a child, I got a baby. And here I was. But I had friends who are from Rwanda, and they were experienced with refugees and how to immigrate, how to apply for things, how to, so they told me, said we should apply to go to Canada. I said, How do I do this? So they told me what to do, but they left and went to Canada and left me in Nigeria. As God will have it, one day, I used to work for the bursar of the university. One time there was an ambassador who came to the University from Canadian embassy. I had talked to friends whom I told them, I said, I want to leave. I want to go to Canada. Once they said, the ambassador is coming, you should go and meet him. Maybe, maybe he can do something. So I went and met the ambassador. So I met him, I shook his hand, and I said, you know, I'm interested in immigrating to Canada. He said, you why? He said, okay, this is my phone number. This is my card. So after that, the rest is history. I got to, I know he went back to the to the embassy in in Lagos, within a, within a month, I heard from him and said, you know, application has been approved. You need to come to register in the embassy. So we went with, my daughter was, she was about two. We went to the embassy for registered. It goes on and on for, for some, for like six months or so. But you know, all my focus was okay. What life is it for my daughter? Where do I take this kid? Where am I going to take this daughter of mine? So we left Nigeria, we went and resettled in Canada. Canada was a heaven for me. I love Canada very much, and but it's a struggle, too. You're a single parent, you want to go to school, you want to do this, you want to do that. I couldn't do those things because I couldn't leave my daughter alone in the house. I had friends from Kenya who was a professor at BU, and he knew my dreams. He knew that I wanted to go back to school. I had met him in Nigeria. And so I explained to him, I said. He said, well, if you apply to the university and you're accepted, you can come and live with us, with myself, my wife. And his wife is my friend too. Said you can live with us, and as long as you can pay your school fees, you know, your tuition. So I applied to BU, I was accepted, and then he gave me work on campus. I had two jobs. Actually on campus. I had actually some, I had three jobs during some. I worked in the print shop. I worked I painted dorms, some of those Binghamton University dorms. I painted them. I had three jobs, and then I worked in professor's office. So that's how I managed to pay my tuition. Then, at the same time supporting my daughter, because she was in at that age, she needs nice clothes, nice shoes, nice this and that. But, you know, you sacrifice everything. You say, well, I have worn enough clothes, you know, I don't need more clothes. What I have is enough, as long as she's happy she's, you know. So that's how I came to Binghamton, and then my daughter went to Howard, and I'm proud to say she's now a doctor,

Lisa Yun  11:46  

And I know she's been on the front lines during covid, and you also continue to work and support people through this time. Have you shared Ugandan cultural practices with her?

Goretti Mugambwa  12:02  

Oh yeah, oh yeah, you know, I mean, I said I don't, I don't like my country, but I like my culture. Culture is very important to me. So in my culture, you know, when you are born, you are given a name, and you are given a pet name. So we have pet names, and there are 12 pet names. My pet name is Akiiki, and there must be Akiiki there. But in my household, I'm the literal Akiiki, because a grown up is more and more. You know, we respect people because of their age, and we don't call them by name. We call them by pet names. My daughter can't come and say, "hey, Aunt Lisa."  No, no, no, no, no, no. Aunt Lisa has to have a pet name, which you call her, Oh, Auntie Akiiki, Auntie Abwoli, Auntie Amooti, you know. And then you, you, you do it in such a way that you, you have to bend down a little bit and they have to touch you, or they have to acknowledge you. Anybody who walks in the door. You have to know their pet name. If you don't know, you just asking, whisper, what's her bed name? Who's Abwoli? So because you don't want them, you don't know my pet name, we know. No, you don't, you don't want to be disrespectful. So my daughter has a pet name. Her pet name is Atwoki, and that really makes us so proud. Makes her feel that, yeah, I'm a Ugandan. I know I have a pet name.

Lisa Yun  13:26  

[Transition music] I know just how much you have dedicated to Broome County being an immigration caseworker, and also that you have another job too.

Goretti Mugambwa  13:36  

So when I got a master's in social work, I was working part time, working with people with the developmental challenges, developmental difficulties. So I was working there at night, and got to school during the day. After I finished my master's degree, then one of the managers there asked me, said, why don't you apply here for permanent job,  as a social worker? And I said, really? Say, yeah. I applied there. I got a job as a behavior specialist, full time, that's five days a week. Then I friend of mine, Andrew,  he had offered me a job here. He said, you know, we are going to resettle refugees. And I was looking for a second job because I have student loans. I have expenses to pay for so that work, which I'm doing now, even now, is not enough for me to pay my student loans. They support my daughter, sorry to say, but jobs in social work, they don't pay a lot. They pay very little. So I work with people who are mentally handicapped, mentally disabled, and I like it really. It's challenging. I raise their programs, and I supervise houses. They live in group homes. I support them in every way I can. And that's my my first actually, it's my first job. And this, I call this my first job too. They are all my first jobs! I love them.

Lisa Yun  14:59  

I appreciate very much you sharing about your own journey. People don't

Goretti Mugambwa  15:03  

People don't understand their stories. They don't understand our stories. They think it's just a name that we say. There's a person behind these, these names.

Le Li  0:06  

Welcome to immigrants Wake America season two, "Hidden Heroes in a Small Town". Come with us behind the scenes to talk with caseworkers and staff who assist refugees and immigrants in upstate New York. I am Le.

Mamen Rodriguez  0:21  

and I am Mamen. Our guest today is Tamar. Tamar was the program coordinator at the American Civic Association until summer 2024. Tamar is of Armenian heritage and immigrated to the United States from Lebanon. In this episode, Tamar shares with us her journey of migration and the many ways in which the ACA helps immigrants in Broome County to celebrate their cultures and come together as one diverse community. Have you ever wondered how you can help the ACA? Tamar tells us the best ways to contribute to this nonprofit at the end of the episode, you

Le Li  1:04  

Hi everyone. Today, we have Tamar with us. Thank you so much for joining us, Tamar,

Tamar Boyajian  1:10  

Thank you for having me. 

Mamen Rodriguez  1:11  

We are very excited to hear about your story and your experiences at the ACA. Can you tell us a bit about yourself and about your journey of migration.

Tamar Boyajian  1:22  

Sure, as you know, my name is Tamar. I'm from Lebanon with Armenian descent, we moved to the United States in 2009. It was a long journey. I left my family, my relatives, my home country, and moved to New Jersey with my husband. We started a new life there. I can say it was an easy start, because, as you all know, leaving your family behind and your country that you were born and raised behind, it's always tough. The first couple years were really hard for us. We were located in New Jersey. We didn't know anyone in the community, but then we moved to Binghamton, which I find myself settled more.  

Le Li  1:22  

What are some challenges you and your family have encountered after moving to the United States?

Tamar Boyajian  2:14  

The biggest challenge was the language. Although I learned English in school, English was the third language that I learned. I knew the language. I was familiar with it, but I didn't have any practice. So it was really challenging for me to go to grocery store, to get things, and then at the cashier, when they start talking really, really fast in English, I'm like, hold on, can you be slower? I can't understand. So that was a little bit challenging for me to feel like I want to talk, I want to express myself, but I can't, because of the language barrier, and of course, not having family around. That's another... the biggest challenge, I'm gonna say.  My first child, when he was born, I couldn't have my family come and visit because of visa issues, so it was really hard not to have my mom with me to see their first-born grandkid. It's always a pain in my heart. 

Cultural challenges are always common, too. I it's different. The Middle Eastern Lebanese mentality is different than the American one, but I was able to adjust and learn and see how I can apply my own culture in a different culture. 

Le Li  3:31  

What brought you to Binghamton?

Tamar Boyajian  3:34  

MY husband did his postdoc in Princeton University, and he got an offer to be a professor, a physics professor, in Binghamton University. I love Binghamton. I love the community. It's very welcoming, and we are happy here. We build our family. I have three kids, and we love to be in Binghampton with our community here. We feel belonged here. 

Le Li  4:01  

Oh, that's wonderful.

Mamen Rodriguez  4:03  

So talking about culture, what are some cultural practices that you maintain while you're in Binghamton?

Tamar Boyajian  4:10  

I was really, really surprised when we were thinking to move to Binghamton to find an Armenian Church. So I'm like, that's not possible because, you know, in New Jersey, they were Armenian churches, but they were a little bit far from Princeton, and it's a big community. You go to church, you don't know anyone, but in Binghamton, it's a small church with a small Armenian community that were, they were very welcoming. It's my second family now. So that way, we were able to keep our culture going, our religious practice going, and I'm so blessed and thankful to have the Armenian Church, because that way my kids are learning the culture, the traditions that we used to do in Lebanon, and now we're doing it here too. So through our church. Church, I can still practice my not only religion, but the culture with my family. And then we found out that there's a Lebanese community too, although there's no Lebanese church, but there's a Lebanese community. They do like a party once a year, sometimes twice a year, with Lebanese music, singers, food, dancers. That's another big thing for us. I wouldn't imagine Binghamton will have these two cultures that we belong to. So we are so fortunate to find the Lebanese community and an Armenian one within the swell Binghamton.

Mamen Rodriguez  5:36  

It's very interesting to see how multicultural the community is in Binghamton. You were talking about how you found two communities that you were a part of, but it's such a small town.

Tamar Boyajian  5:48  

 Exactly.

Yes, I was so surprised. I was just checking for schools for my kids. Went before moving, and looking the area houses and stuff. I said, but just Google, if there is a church or something, I found Saint Gregory the Armenian Church. I'm like, "Oh, my God, this is not possible!". I immediately called and asked more questions about the area and everything, and they were really helpful. So, yeah, it's a small town, but with a big potential, with the big multicultural community.

 In Armenia the day before Lent start. So, we do Lent for 40 days, and then we celebrate Easter so right the day before Lent start, Armenians usually do a big party, and it's like costume party, similar to Halloween, but not the scary Halloween stuff. It just like getting disguised and wearing costumes and masks and stuff like that. And of course, with the Armenian traditional food, that's what we do always before land start, that's a big celebration. And all also, Armenians celebrate Christmas on January 6 and not december 24 but we do celebrate both. We want to raise the kids both ways. So it's really it's really nice to celebrate december 24 with Santa and everything. And then on January 6, we go to the church and celebrate the Armenian Christmas with the traditional Armenian meal. 

Another tradition we do as Lebanese every year is, on December 4, we plant like beans or lentils. And the tradition is from December 4 to December 24 Christmas Eve, that the plant will grow so that the meaning of life. So that's a tradition that I kept, and the kids love to do it. Just everyone will have his small, little pot, and they plant the seed and we put it under the Christmas tree. So until december 24 Christmas Eve, we'll have the plant. Then they start measuring close to tallest or things like that. Yeah, I'm hoping they will keep through and they will pass it on. 

My kids learn Armenian they take like Armenian language classes. We try to keep the culture going through the language. They started writing now and speaking. So that's really good. I don't know if you know the history Armenian went through genocide in the 1915 and our ancestors has to leave Armenia and just migrate to other places. So my my ancestors came to Lebanon, and that's where we like to preserve and keep our native language. Armenia is a small country, so we feel like by keeping the language, by speaking the language and following the traditions and the culture, this is how we fight for our country. This is how we maintain our rich culture. So that's why we keep speaking Armenian at home, so my kids will learn it too. My husband is Armenian too, which helps by the conversations and everything is Armenian. I want to keep the language going, because I know my parents want to speak Armenian with my kids, same with my in laws. So yeah. 

You know, the American civic Association's mission is to help new Americans succeed since 1939 and how do we do that? It's by helping the newcomers to complete and submit their immigration paperwork to the USCIS. We complete more than 28 immigration forms. We also help newcomers with their resume building, interview preparation and apply for different jobs in our community. That's a big part of our programs. And beginning of 2023, ACA became an affiliate of the IRC, the International Rescue Committee, and we started resettling refugees. That means we are responsible of picking up these refugees from the airport, finding housing for them, food, clothing, enroll their children, schools, take them to the medical appointments, all this within the first 90 days. So this is one of our biggest programs here at the ACA and our staff work really hard to accommodate and help these refugees to resettle in the community. Also, we do a lot of educational programs. We have ESL classes, we have citizenship classes every Thursday, and we have educational workshops. 

So I'm specifically in charge of these educational workshops. We try to do around four workshops per month. And of course, we believe that the best way to welcome and embrace the newcomers is to celebrate their cultures. So that is why we organize multiple cultural events throughout the year to celebrate the diversity of the community. And we think it's really important to acknowledge these cultures and to keep it alive in their lives, I spent like almost eight, nine years as a stay at home mom with my kids until they were ready to go to school, and that happened after covid. So I felt myself I'm ready to serve my community now and help other people, and I was so thankful for the ACA to give me the opportunity to work here and contribute to my community. It's really rewarding to work at the ACA with the refugees and the immigrants, because I can strongly relate to their situation. I was an immigrant, and I know what it feels like and the challenges that you go through, so I'm really, really happy that I'm being able to help other immigrants and refugees to be able to resettle, adjust to the American community. So my work as a events and marketing coordinator, it's really... it's really rewarding, because I can see the clients, our clients, the immigrants. I can help them with organizing workshops that I know it will benefit them. I know they need to learn about this stuff, and we need to do it for them, to educate them simple things such as, like, banking system is totally different in the US comparing to other countries. So I feel really, really excited every time I organize a workshop. I know what they need to learn, so I know how to approach them. And I'm so happy that I can speak multiple languages, so I'll be able to translate these workshops. And I also plan and organize cultural events, which is really important too. We lately resettled a couple families from Syria, and they speak Arabic, my native language, so I was really, really happy to be able to help them with everything in their resettling process. And we organized a cultural night, Middle Eastern cultural night couple weeks ago, and I saw the smile on their faces, this refugee, Syrian refugees, out with their kids, dancing in the with the Arabic music. Seeing that that it's really rewarding. It means everything. It means that we're doing a good thing to keep the customs to, you know, educate them with the US traditions, US system, but at the same time preserving and acknowledging their own culture.

Mamen Rodriguez  14:09  

I think that that work that you do at the ACA is so important. The ACA is not only a place where people go for legal help, but it's also a place where they go to learn these things, and also the cultural nights that you're doing, all the events that you're having. And I wonder if you want to share one of your favorite experiences. 

Tamar Boyajian  14:31  

I mean, we do events all around the year, as I was mentioning, we did lunar new year in February, and it was really fun. It's not only about food, although food is the main thing, but people were really, really happy with the different activities that we did. We had the costumes, the packing opera costumes. People can try it on. We were taking pictures of them, and the calligraphy that was a big part of. Of this year's event, people really enjoyed to have their name written in Asian or Mandarin language. We had a lot of activities for the kids, and a lot of Asian from the Asian community, they joined us and played on the instrument. That was a very interesting to listen. BU, BU, they were...They came with the lion dance. That was the highlight of the night! People love that every time they come and join us with the big lion dance and the big drums and everything. So Lunar New Year is one of the most awaited and exciting festival or event that we do here at the ACA along with multiple other events. All Nations is another exciting event, because it's not celebrating one culture, it's celebrating all the cultures in our community, from Sudanese culture to The Asian to the African to the Irish, Middle Eastern...Everything,  it's all united in all nations. People wait for it every year, and it's held on May 11 this year (2024). So we are excited about it.

Mamen Rodriguez  16:14  

For anybody that's listening to the podcast, how can they help? How can they contribute to the ACA, is there any way in which regular people can help you?

Tamar Boyajian  16:27  

Definitely, as I said, we are a nonprofit, and we do a lot, and we rely on grants and donations. So really, any help from the community is appreciated. Monetary donations is always appreciated and always welcomed. Because, like for example, the resettling refugee program is very underfunded, so we really rely on donations. We rely on items to be donated, because we try to find housing, and we have to furnish this housing each individual will is coming with a very low budget, and it's hard to get everything done resettle them with that minimum amount of money that they come with. So we really ask our community to help us, to assist us in this program and help us in any way they can, any resources, any donations are always welcome.

Mamen Rodriguez  17:33  

Of course, and we hope that with this podcast, people will listen and will be inclined to donate or to participate in the ACA, if they're in the area of Binghamton, and overall, spread the word about all the good work that all of you at the ACA are always doing for other people.

Tamar Boyajian  17:55  

Thank you. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak and share our experience and everything. It means a lot to us. 

Mamen Rodriguez  18:06  

Thank you for sharing your story. I think it's very generous of you to share things about your own journey, for people to listen, but also of your work and the stories of other people at the ACA. So thank you very much

Tamar Boyajian  18:21  

Anytime, I'm happy to do that.

Mamen Rodriguez  18:35  

Thank you for listening to immigrants quake America. This podcast is supported by Humanities New York, Binghamton University, the Tennement Museum and the American Civic Association.

Le Li  18:47  

For more details on our supporters, please see our show notes and our website, immigrantswakeamerica.com you can also email us at immigrantswakeamerica@gmail.com. We would love to hear from you, see you in the next episode!